Victoria, B.C., Canada: Downs and ups on an anniversary trip —or, How we were denied entrance to Victoria's most famous garden for dressing too decently, yet still managed to find many lovely flowers in much better places

8/12/2016

[N.B. If, after reading this piece, you would like to speak up against the way Butchart Gardens treated us, their public relations contact is: [email protected]]

""[I]t takes so much courage to stand up for one's principles, one's ideas."
"But why do it? Why not accept what everybody says is so, and go along comfortably?"
"Why not? I often ask myself. But — well, I can't."" — Graham Phillips David. A Woman Ventures. 1902, pp. 216-217.
***

August 11th was our 14th wedding anniversary. For over a year we'd been talking about going up to Victoria, B.C., to celebrate it.
Gabriel works more than eight hours a day, five days a week at a bike shop, Thursday through Monday. His commute to work is so far that at least once every week he spends the night at his mom's house (she lives closer to the bike shop where he works) instead of coming home, just so he can get a little more sleep once a week. I really miss him on those nights. Tuesday-Wednesday is our usual "weekend" since those are Gabriel's days off from the bike shop. Our anniversary fell on a Thursday this year, and Gabriel worked to arrange for one day off of his usual week. Taking Thursday off gave us a three day "weekend", which is an incredibly rare thing for us. We'd been looking forward to it with immensely eager anticipation.
We have very little money for vacations these days, but we scrimped and saved for a trip to Victoria. We've long been very fond of the city and have visited many times, but there was one landmark which Gabriel had never seen before because it is so very expensive we never felt able to justify the cost: the Butchart Gardens, a large flower garden 20 km outside of town. I'd been there back in high school, when the admissions fees weren't quite so exorbitant. Despite the rise in costs I really wanted Gabriel to see it.
     We bought our admission tickets to the garden over a month in advance, and likewise paid in advance for a meal at the tea-house there —the only option for lunch, since the garden is so far out of town. We wouldn't be bringing our bicycles this trip, specifically because we'd done our research and knew that there are no bikes allowed on the grounds and nowhere outside to secure a high wheel. This meant that our only option for getting out to the garden was the large tour bus which shuttles visitors from Butchart to downtown Victoria several times a day. The bus company operates in partnership with the gardens, and since they have a monopoly on transportation, the fee to ride this bus is accordingly expensive. Between the high cost of admission, lunch, and the bus, all the fees we paid in advance for just the two of us came to more than the cost of an entire week's worth of groceries. When we planned and saved for our trip we knew our budget was tight, but I told Gabriel (and I worked hard to convince myself) that the sacrifice would be worth it to spend a day together in a flower garden. It was for our anniversary, after all. It was really the only big expense we planned for the whole trip. The rest of the time we would just wander the city, get our meals from the grocery store, and enjoy each others' company.
The night before our departure I was so excited I could barely sleep. I woke up at 2 a.m. and, giddy with anticipation, I stayed awake.
We took the first ferry of the day from Port Angeles to Victoria. The ferries between the Olympic Peninsula and southwest Canada (especially Vancouver Island, where Victoria is located) have a long and fascinating history; Gabriel and I chatted brightly about it as we traveled, discussing the long tradition of sea travel in this region. About halfway through the voyage the ship encountered what mariners call a swell and I was feeling slightly seasick, but I found I could keep my nausea under control as long as I kept my eyes shut and pretended I was being rocked in a cradle. Gabriel was worried about me but I assured him I was alright; that we were on a wonderful trip, and that the very minor discomfort I was feeling from the waves would simply be good material for a future story, when the cycling club in my fictional series charters a small steamer for a visit to Victoria. While my eyes were closed, I relaxed and plotted out that story and others in the series. And too, I looked forward to spending time in the garden with my dear husband.
We docked in Victoria too early to check in to our hotel, and besides, the bus to Butchart leaves directly from the ferry dock and their schedules are coordinated. We'd researched details of the garden in advance and learned that they had a baggage check area, so we planned that the minimal luggage we had with us could be left at the desk while we explored the garden together all day. Accordingly, we got on the bus with our little bags in hand. We ignored the inevitable snide comments we always get when we're out in public, and just focused on the good in the day, and how excited we were.
When we arrived at the garden, we saw a small bed of red begonias between the turnstiles at the entrance and the visitor's center. It was a square bed of red begonias with nothing terribly exceptional about it. Neither of us realized at the time that those red begonias were destined to be the one and only element of the famous Butchart Gardens which we were destined to see —despite all our planning and all our excitement.
As soon as we entered the grounds of the garden, we walked past the red begonias and into the visitor's center, intending to check our bags. We weren't allowed to get any farther.
In the visitor's center we smiled politely at the young man behind the counter and told him "Good morning!"
When I smile at someone in a friendly way and wish them good morning I appreciate a return of the greeting; at the bare minimum a smile is nice. Considering how much we were paying to be at Butchart, I don't consider myself unreasonable to have expected this simple level of human courtesy when we entered the visitor's center. We didn't get it. Instead, the young man behind the desk (Bryan, by his name tag) scowled at us and barked, "You need to change your clothes!"
Excuse me?
Anyone who knows the slightest thing about Gabriel and me should have some idea of the typical clothes we wear every single day. I was wearing my blue striped print dress, covered decently from my ankles to the top of my neck. Gabriel was wearing a suit. Naturally, we were both also wearing hats. (I honestly can't even remember the last time I went outside and off the tiny property attached to my own home without a hat. Hats are just part of being dressed to go outdoors in Victorian culture.)
"I'm sorry?" "What was that?" Gabriel and I asked together, sure we couldn't have heard Bryan correctly.
He looked down his nose at us. "We don't allow costumes here," he sneered.
"These aren't costumes!" We both responded in chorus, already feeling insulted. (For more on the subject of costume vs. clothing and how important the distinction is to us, please read this excerpt from my book Victorian Secrets: http://www.thisvictorianlife.com/costume-vs-clothing.html)
"This is what we wear every day," Gabriel went on.
Bryan cut him off: "You can't wear them here! Whatever you want to call them. You have to take them off."
"Excuse me?"  I felt my blood pressure rising.
"We don't have any other clothes," Gabriel told him, calmer than I was. "All our clothes are like this. Like we just told you, we dress this way all the time."
"Well, you can't dress up that way here!"
We stared at him. What does he want us to do, walk around naked? Honestly, most of the other visitors weren't far from that.
Already, after less than one minute since we'd entered the visitor's center and less than three minutes since we'd walked through the gate of the Butchart Gardens, I didn't want to be there. Despite all our anticipation, despite all our excitement. After this reception, I knew already: This was not what we had dreamed of; this was not what we had come for; and this certainly was not what I had been willing to spend the equivalent of a week's worth of grocery money on.
"Then you have to give us our money back," I told Bryan logically.
Bryan scowled. "I can see if there are some old staff uniforms you could put on."
"No!" Gabriel and I both instantly responded, affronted.
     Our clothes are wrapped up in the most intimate way possible with our own identities. (I've written an entire book on the subject, for goodness' sakes.) This man was telling us that to enter this place we had paid an inordinate amount of money to visit, we would first have to strip off our very identities. No.
"If you won't let us be here in our own clothes, then give us our money back," I repeated.
Bryan scowled again. "I don't want to talk to you about this. I'll get my boss to talk to you about it." He then got on a telephone and started yelling into the receiver very loudly that he had people who were wearing COSTUMES and REFUSED to change them.
When Bryan's boss arrived, unlike Bryan he had both his first and last names on his name tag: Jake Tomlinson. He introduced himself as John.
"We don't allow costumes here," Jake/John Tomlinson barked immediately. "You're going to have to change."
   "These aren't costumes," Gabriel and I told him. "These are the clothes we wear every day."
John Tomlinson made a face. "Well, historical dress if that's what you want to call it. Whatever you call it, we don't allow people to dress the way you are here. And take off your hats when you talk to me!"
Take off our hats? He is commanding a lady to take off her hat? I wondered if he even realized the profound level of insult in that command. To remove one's hat in the presence of superiors has been a social gesture of inferiority since the days of medieval feudalism. He was demanding that we recognize his superiority to us.
   "No, we will not take off our hats," I told him, incensed by the demand of physical submission. "That is an insulting request."
   "You can't wear costumes here!" He repeated.
"This is the way we dress every day," we repeated yet again.
   For the sake of my readers' patience and sanity, I will omit the repetition of this exchange which went on for the next ten minutes while we tried to explain to John Tomlinson that we really do dress this way every day and that there are firmly held convictions behind why we do so. He refused to believe us, and kept sneering that we were wearing ridiculous costumes that wouldn't be allowed in Butchart.
   "Then give us our money back," I told him.
   He didn't like that idea at all. "If you would just put on some of our old staff uniforms you could stay, but if you look like that—" He sneeringly gestured at us. "If you wear those costumes, then people will assume you work here."
The staff had repeatedly denied our own identities, denied that our clothes were real clothes and kept insisting they were costumes; now John Tomlinson was demanding that we play-act being a staff menial all day? And his reason for demanding that we play-act being one of their staff was so that people wouldn't think we were on the staff? Seriously? There were so many different levels of irony and hypocrisy to this I didn't even know where to start.
   We shook our heads. "We're not changing our clothes," we insisted. "Just give us our money back."
"I suppose we can refund your admissions fee," John Tomlinson said grudgingly.
   "And the cost of the high tea!" I insisted.
   "What?"
   "We paid in advance to have lunch here at your tea room."
   "That's non-refundable—"
   "If you're kicking us out, you have to refund it!"
   "No one's kicking you out, if you would just put on some of our old staff uniforms—"
The thought occurred to me that after this sort of treatment, a truly petty and spiteful person would dress in the staff uniform they kept pressuring us to wear, then in that assumed role as one of their representatives, spend the rest of the day being as vile and disgusting as possible to every other guest on the grounds of the garden. But we are not the sort of people to do that.
"We're not changing our clothes for you!" We repeated yet again.
I raised my voice so the other visitors in the center could hear the situation. "If you're kicking us out, you have to refund all our money," I insisted, and proceeded to list the various fees, touching one of my fingers after another as I did so:. First, I held out my thumb: "Our admissions fees—" I added my forefinger. "The cost of the tea which we paid for in advance and now aren't going to get to eat—" Finally, I was holding up three fingers. "And the cost of the bus we took out here." I let my hand drop, then another thought occurred to me. I added, "—And I think you should pay for a cab ride back to Victoria for us, too!" I seriously didn't want to lose another hour of our precious, short vacation waiting for the next bus to depart, and I especially didn't want to spend that time standing outside the gate like sadly excluded urchins.

The cab fare was the one cost John Tomlinson didn't quibble about, being clearly eager to get rid of us by this point. "Fine!" He snapped at Bryan, "Give them their admissions fee. I'll call a cab."
As John Tomlinson disappeared and we followed Bryan to the cash register I repeated yet again, "And the cost of the tea, and the cost of the bus!"
We gave Bryan the tickets we had bought in advance. He slowly, grudgingly counted out the cost of admission from the cash register.
   "And the cost of the tea, and the cost of the bus!" I reminded him. I reflected that Butchart could really have a racket going, if they made a habit of refusing people entrance and then also refusing to refund large portions of the money those people had paid in advance in good faith.
Bryan just glared at me.
"If you're kicking us out, you have to refund all our money," I insisted yet again.
John Tomlinson came back. "Do you want me to get someone higher up to talk to you and see if we can arrange a very special, one time exception so you can stay?"
I shook my head. "I don't want to be here, after all this! Just give us our money back!"
   "Fine, give them all of it," John Tomlinson spat at Bryan.
   Bryan counted out the rest as slowly and grudgingly as if it had been his own cash he were giving us, glaring the whole time.
"I'll escort you out!" John Tomlinson barked.
As John was escorting us out I couldn't help noticing that the vast majority of visitors freely wandering the grounds without molestation were wearing tank tops, flip-flops, and spaghetti-strap dresses. Meanwhile, Gabriel in his suit and I in my ankle-length dress with high collar were being ejected —effectively for dressing too decently. It seemed so ironic I asked John Tomlinson if it was Butchart policy to make Muslim women remove their hijabs.
I don't think John Tomlinson even grasped the point I was trying to make. He just flatly said, "No."
Gabriel asked, "So, where do you draw the line? These honestly are the clothes we wear every day, and there really are firm principles and good reasons—"
John Tomlinson cut him off. "Well, I'll give you an example. Just last week we had a couple in and he was dressed as a bumblebee and she was dressed as a ladybug and we told them they couldn't come in that way —but they were more reasonable about it that you're being and they were willing to change clothes!"
He's comparing our lifestyle to people dressed as insects?
     The continued level of insult in this whole situation was astonishing.
   John Tomlinson dumped us outside the gate to wait for the cab. After he'd gone, Gabriel shook his head. "You know, the level of Old Testament symbolism here in being expelled from the garden is just too deep for words." He shook his head again, then forced a wry grin. "I have to say though, John would look ridiculous with a flaming sword!"
   I had to laugh, and the laughter opened the flood gates on the tears I'd been holding in check. Tears of disappointment at the upsetting of all our lovely plans, tears of anger at how we had been treated and tears of frustration at how ridiculous it all was.
   "Come here," Gabriel put his arms around me and guided me to a bench. "It's all right."
   "You know what the worst part is?" I asked, leaning against his support. "The absolute worst part is that every time something like this happens, I hear the voices —a whole chorus of voices— of every single person who's told me they wish they could do something outside the mainstream, but they feel like they can't. This sort of thing is exactly why they feel that they can't. I hate it." My tears started flowing more heavily.
   "I know —I understand," Gabriel told me. "But listen: we are the way we are because it's who we want to be, but we do it for those people, too. Not for that sort—" He pointed back towards the gate. "We do it to show people who want to be themselves that it is possible to be an individual, and that people don't just have to conform and squish themselves into the mold of what society dictates that they should be. That's exactly the sort of firm principle we were trying to explain we represent." He squeezed my shoulder. "And we don't back down."
     There is a pride in that.
     On the ride back to town, I quietly recited Rudyard Kipling's poem, "If":

If you can keep your head when all about you
    Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
    But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
    Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
    And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream—and not make dreams your master;
    If you can think—and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
    Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
    And stoop and build ’em up with worn-out tools:
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
    And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
    And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
    To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
    Except the Will which says to them: ‘Hold on!’
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
    Or walk with Kings—nor lose the common touch,
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
    If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
    With sixty seconds’ worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that’s in it,
    And—which is more—you’ll be a Man, my son!

   It was still before check-in time at our hotel when we got there, but asked if we could leave our bags with them. When they heard our story about being turned away from Butchart Gardens, the desk staff expressed righteous indignation on our behalf and said we were more than welcome to check in early. They also made a point of telling us they thought we looked lovely, and they were happy to have us there.
   After we put away our bags, we left the hotel to walk around the city. Almost as soon as we got outside, we were approached by a large Muslim family —father, mother, grandmother, and lots of adorable children, all the women in hijabs. They stopped us and told us how nice we looked, and the father (whose English was the best) asked if they could take our picture. Of course we told them they could, and they were incredibly sweet and kind to us.
     The difference between the way we had just been rejected by Butchart versus the way we were being welcomed by this random family was almost overwhelming —so much so that I had a hard time not crying again.
The grandmother spoke to me a little in French and reiterated how lovely it was to meet us. She had a beautiful accent that was unfamiliar to me, and after we parted ways I asked Gabriel if he had recognized the language they'd been speaking to each other.
   "I was trying to," he mused, puzzling. "I don't know that it's one I've heard before..."
   I tried to think of Islamic regions where French would be a likely second language for the older generation. "Do you think it might have been Persian?"
   Gabriel looked surprised. "Maybe! Very cool."
   "They were so sweet..." I teared up again.
   "Definitely." Gabriel squeezed my hand reassuringly.
   We walked up to Beacon Hill and wandered the extensive grounds of the beautiful gardens there which are part of the city's park system, freely accessible to all the public, without cost. We saw the world's tallest totem pole, and wandered near the petting zoo to see the animals. We marveled at the beautiful colors of the peacocks' plumage and laughed when we watched them fly up onto the roof of a small shelter to escape the crowds of children.
   The little zoo had a flock of chickens exhibiting a dramatic variety of breeds. The largest was a rooster with huge spurs and golden plumage; one of the smallest was a tiny little bantam rooster with plumage of many colors. The little bantam was only about one-third the size of the big golden rooster, but every time the big golden rooster let out a self-aggrandizing crow the little rooster just stood up straight and proudly responded in kind, crowing for all he was worth. I liked that little bantam, and we stayed watching him for a while. The big golden rooster would tower over him, crowing, and I kept expecting him to peck the little guy in the vicious way that chickens do. But the little bantam just stood his ground, kept crowing with his own tiny voice, and at last the golden rooster left him alone. As soon as the big rooster backed down from the little bantam, that same big golden rooster found himself chased and pecked by a hen significantly smaller than himself. The bantam who had stood his ground stayed proud and tall, and went unpecked by anyone.

Thanks to my dogged insistence that all our money be refunded in full, we found ourselves with far more discretionary funds than we'd expected for our stay in Victoria. We could certainly visit other gardens. We could also now visit places which we'd thought wouldn't be possible this trip, such as Craigdarroch Castle, a Victorian house museum which we adore. We could go to the Royal B.C. Museum and see their special exhibit of a 40,000 year-old baby woolly mammoth —the most complete woolly mammoth ever found. We would even still have money left to take a water tour on a tiny boat along the same route we'd read about in a 19th-century cycling travel log.

So, we did. We did all these things.

After the rude way we'd been expelled from the most expensive garden in Victoria, I took special delight in hunting out the countless free gardens which fill practically every spare nook of the city. We walked around the B.C. Parliament, smelled the roses outside the Empress Hotel, and toured public parks which are available to anyone. Outside commercial buildings we saw landscapes and features on par with anything I've seen in commercial gardens on three continents. Besides endless pots, beds, and banks of flowers, we saw topiary, and even koi ponds with beautiful waterlilies —all for free.

We did pay admission to one garden — a beautiful, hidden gem of a place. At Abkhazi Garden we were greeted by a lovely woman (a volunteer) who told us how nice we looked and how happy she was that we'd come.
  She gave us a map and pointed out the donation box, but told us shyly that the suggested donation on the side was just an idea and that we could pay less if we wanted to.
   The suggested price of admission to Abkhazi was less than the cost of the bus (just the bus) to Butchart. We paid Abkhazi Garden their full donation, with glad hearts and thanks.
   The Abkhazi Garden was planted by a real life prince and princess: deposed Georgian prince Prince Nicholas Abkhazi and his wife Peggy.

Prince Nicholas Abhkazi's father Konstantine, circa 1916. Image courtesy http://www.thetravelinggardener.com/2013/abkhazi-garden-victoria-b-cs-romantic-prize/

The following description of Prince Nicholas and Princess Peggy's story appeared in The Globe and Mail in 2000:

"Prince Abkhazi, who was born to the Georgian monarchy in 1899, was exiled to France in the early 1920s after Russia's invasion and the Bolshevik Revolution.
He first met then Peggy Pemberton-Carter in Paris while she was travelling with her adoptive mother. Together, the two visited art galleries, museums and explored the streets of Paris.
Peggy was born in 1902 to British expatriates living in Shanghai. Both died of illnesses before she was 5, prompting her adoption by a wealthy, childless couple, the Pembertons, friends of her parents.
She returned to China after meeting the prince in Paris and it was years before their paths crossed again. During the Second World War, she was interned in a Japanese war camp in Shanghai while he was a French soldier and prisoner of war in Hanover. The princess turned to gardening in the intern camp as her choice of manual labour.
They tracked each other down after the war through letters. She had no surviving family and decided to move to Victoria in 1945 to join friends. He soon followed her to Canada and the two were married. She was 43. He was 47. They never had children and there are no known surviving relatives.
The newlyweds bought the Fairfield estate, transforming the rocky, weedy lot through a labour of love into their own special sanctuary.
The princess often referred to the garden, which has been profiled in books and magazines, as their child. She called it "the garden that love built."

Read the whole article to find out how shockingly close this amazing garden came to being razed for townhouses at the beginning of the 21st-century: www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/fairy-tale-garden-in-victoria-may-be-saved-builder-holds-off-plans-as-funds-are-raised/article4159362/

Thankfully, it survived the threat. We were blessed to be able to visit it.

Having told the history of Abkhazi Garden, it seems worth mentioning that Butchart started its existence as a stone quarry. Thus, in this trip we were barred from entering an old stone quarry, and then warmly welcomed into the garden of a princess. Life is really interesting sometimes in this funny old world we live in.

Whilst wandering through the grounds, we came across a delightful surprise:

Besides the lovely woman who greeted us at the gate, the Abhkazi Garden is also overseen by a charming feline hostess!

She graciously welcomed us to the garden and bade us enjoy our further explorations.

Truly, the Abhkazi Garden is a lovely and welcoming place, and I would recommend it to anyone.

One of our favorite places in Victoria, and another which we would likewise glowingly recommend to anyone and everyone, is Craigdarroch Castle. Built for the Dunsmuir family in the late 1880s, Craigdarroch is an architectural masterpiece which houses a wonderful collection of Victorian artifacts.

A video tour of the castle is available here: https://thecastle.ca/about-the-castle/galleries/#videos

The Royal B.C. Museum is currently showcasing a special exhibit on woolly mammoths. We went there on the last day of our trip —our fourteenth anniversary. The 14th anniversary is traditionally the ivory anniversary, so it seemed incredibly apt to be learning about tusked behemoths. They had a baby mammoth on display which is currently on loan from her home museum. Lyuba (named for the wife of the man who found her) is 40,000 years old, and the only completely intact mammoth ever discovered. More information about her is available here: http://www.timescolonist.com/news/local/from-russia-with-love-rare-glimpse-of-tiny-mammoth-1.2265348

As for food on the trip, several times we went to Murchie's, a tea shop started in 1894 by a young Scotsman who had delivered tea to Queen Victoria herself. We also made sure to procure Victoria creams from Rogers', a chocolate shop established in 1885.
     We had an excellent lunch at a restaurant in Chinatown, and an equally good dinner at an Indian restaurant where we were practically the only caucasians —and where the waiter was particularly welcoming to us.
   On our last day in Victoria we had breakfast in the dining room of the B.C. Parliament building. The waiter not only recognized us from previous visits to Victoria, but also remembered the exact table where we had sat on previous trips! I was charmed beyond words when he apologized for not remembering whether we preferred tea or coffee. It had been over a year since our last visit, and this level of consideration and respect from someone accustomed to serving high government officials was absolutely heartwarming.
   We really appreciate all the good and decent people (plus one cat!) we encountered who made a difficult trip so much better!

Addendum: After reading the above account of our trip, one of our supporters sent us the following link. Apparently we aren't alone in being turned away from Butchart for dressing too decently: https://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowUserReviews-g184850-d155441-r222511723-Butchart_Gardens-Central_Saanich_Victoria_Capital_Regional_District_Vancouver_Isl.html Clearly, a policy change is in order.

Further addendum, 8/17/16: Sadly, they did change their policy —to be more restrictive!  Here is a screen capture of the garden's webpage at the time of our visit: https:web.archive.org/web/20160412172142/http://www.butchartgardens.com/visit/services-accessibility/ (This archived version of the site was accessed via an internet archival service called The Way Back machine, which archives screen captures of many, many websites over time.) And here is the current version of the same page, changed after people started defending us: http:www.butchartgardens.com/visit/services-accessibility As you can see, they added the part banning "costumes, period style, or historical dress" after the media took up the story. As can be seen on the archived screen shot, the policy wasn't in place at the time of our visit, despite claims on their official response to what happened. (They never did try to contact us personally about it, or apologize in any way.)
  All this makes us very sad, but we're working hard to move past this hurtful incident and remember the good parts of our trip.

Isabel Rimmer

8/14/2016 07:16:31 am

Disgusted to hear of your experience. Have sent a " snotogram" to Butcharts. Next time you are on the island, keep going to Duncan a little farther north and come visit us on our little farm. You can wear what you like!

Theo

8/16/2016 02:14:35 pm

I would recommend that anyone who is upset with the Butchart gardens' handling of this matter give them a 1 star rating on facebook or google maps. They will actually respond to that, and unlike the critical posts on their facebook page which they have been deleting, they cannot delete ratings. You can reconsider them after they reconsider their ridiculous policy, though.

Ivo

8/16/2016 11:50:34 pm

I'll be doing that.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 08:30:33 am

Thank you—I'm sure Duncan is lovely! :)

Thrifty Mom In Boise link

8/14/2016 07:25:11 am

I am heartbroken to hear of how you were treated at Butchart. It is completely shameful what they did to you. How on earth is your fine clothing considered unadmissable? To suggest that others might think you work there and then insist you wear their old staff uniforms makes no sense whatsoever. Why your attire was even an issue in the first place completely boggles the mind. I can promise I have no desire to visit that horrid place now. I am so glad you were able to enjoy a lovely trip in spite of the bumpy start. I am also glad you stayed firm and got your money refunded. They had no reason to refuse that.

Happy Anniversary. Take care.

Renee

8/14/2016 07:44:23 am

What an abhorrent way to treat good people, but I found myself grinning ear to ear as I read the balance of this post. I often anticipate the good to come when I encounter ill at the start. Victoria has made it to my list of must-sees. And a very happy anniversary to the two of you. You do inspire, though modern mundanity fights you.

J Popplewhit

8/14/2016 08:40:09 am

Well, the people at BG were judgemental and nasty, but would you want to spend time with folks like that? Certainly it was a disappointment, but a better weekend was in store for you. Don't let the harsh treatment of BG get you down, they did you a favour by letting you explore elsewhere. I certainly would never go there after hearing this, and I consider it no loss as I wouldn't want to be with folks who treat good people in such a shabby manner.

Most important of all, you have the greatest blessing, each other. Love can bloom anywhere. It doesn't need a special place, just two kind hearts.

Also remember this, your writing is a gift. Your experiences provide great joy and entertainment to many. I believe what you said about your alternative weekend was likely better than what you might have seen in the other garden. I particularly laughed at being turned out of the garden in a biblical sense....as though you had seen the tree of knowledge, the center of good and evil, and the good walked away to a better, happier place.

This was just one weekend, one anniversary....you will have many more, a lifetime of adventure. And what a grand time you will have!

--from a kindred spirit twice your age, trust me, it will be grand indeed.

lynne

8/14/2016 08:47:24 am

I am so terribly sorry you were treated so horribly by those cretins at the Butchart. Bravo to you for insisting on being fully reimbursed. (You should have gotten more, for "pain and suffering!") But what delightful adventures you had as a result of being turned away. Thank you so much for sharing them. My daughter is planning a trip to Victoria and I will recommend she read your article to plan her own itinerary. I'm so glad the rest of your anniversary trip was so much more pleasant. I think there will be far fewer visitors to the Butchart as a result of your article!

Kim Poovey link

8/14/2016 08:53:57 am

My goodness what an ordeal! I have been working towards more of a daily Victorian presence in my life by your example and I must say that I am shocked that anyone would be so adamant and so rude. I have always wanted to go to those gardens but now I will have to reconsider (in all due honesty-I seriously doubt I would have the funds and if I did have the money I would be more apt to go to England:). It sickens me that you both suffered such indecency as this but I am thankful you were bale to enjoy a more beautiful vacation:).

Ryan S. Grimm

8/14/2016 09:54:20 am

I have emailed the persons in question in an open letter, and I copy it below as sent to both the Garden addressed in the Article, and to a Vintage group I belong to in the Boston Massachusetts area, the Greater Boston Vintage Society on Facebook.
I may also address it to other vintage groups I belong to.

I do not yet have the level of details in clothing that you and your husband emulate, I consider myself a work in progress.

Message as follows:
To whom it may concern:

This is an open letter to your facility, I shall be sharing it with the persons addressed in the appended article, as well as members of a local Society I belong to, specifically the Greater Boston Vintage Society.

I have been made aware of a recent refusal by members of your staff to permit admission of a couple to your Garden area.
Specifically, Sarah and Gabriel Chrisman. I append an article written by Mrs. Chrisman.

http://www.thisvictorianlife.com/blog/victoria-bc-canada-downs-and-ups-on-an-anniversary-trip-or-how-we-were-denied-entrance-to-victorias-most-famous-garden-for-dressing-too-decently-yet-still-managed-to-find-many-lovely-flowers-in-much-better-places

I wonder at the response of your staff to the Chrisman couple, as related by the article. This is rather difficult, considering the degree of detail your gardening staff has gone to, to create and preserve the grounds of your establishment. I would think that persons that would appreciate the level of workmanship of your Garden could dress appropriately for the facility, yet only to find that they were turned away for 'costume'.
Be assured that the couple in question are not 'costumed performers'; rather are highly respected for their choice of lifestyle, and their appreciation of a place and period of time that they choose to emulate.
Be assured that the couple in question take great pains to ensure their dress is proper for whatever place they may visit. They devote a great deal of their time and finances in any exposure to the general public.

Might I remind you of the choice of a word used by your staff, as reported:
COSTUME. While commonly used as an common epithet or simple description of clothing used for comic or stage effect, it is actually the word used to describe the clothing worn by persons for a venue, deemed appropriate to that venue.
As follows:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costume

As this seems to be the only criteria for allowing persons to visit your facility, perhaps we should not visit. The article's description of those that had been permitted to enter unimpeded has me thinking that while I and my Lady friend have been anticipating a visit to British Columbia, we have started to rethink our choice of locations. It is well that the Chrisman's visit did not end in tragedy, and that they discovered many other places and sights to see.
Your staff's language and grudging refund of the fees paid in advance also indicate a lack of service and training in your staff.
I sincerely hope you address these issues before our trip to British Columbia next summer.

I thank your for your attention, and hope this issue can be resolved to the benefit of both groups involved.

Yours,
Ryan S. Grimm
Plymouth, Massachusetts U.S.A.

Ryan S. Grimm

8/14/2016 09:59:13 am

Dear Mrs. Chrisman,
Having read the above article I appreciate the level of effort you have gone to in writing it, and hope it does not distress you in recounting the day in question.
My Lady and I in particular have a great deal of sympathy for you and your efforts to show an excellent example of dress and deportment for the General Public, and hope you continue in your efforts.
We have been planning for some time a trip to Victoria, and will continue to bend our efforts to this end.

Yours most respectfully,
Ryan S. Grimm
Plymouth Massachusetts U.S.A.

Karen M Owen link

8/14/2016 10:00:34 am

I am so truly horrified you were treated so badly in Victoria. I am so upset by this. I wish you were treated with the respect deserved of any paying patron and I am embarrassed this happened to you in my country! So happy that the rest of your trip was better and should i find myself 3 hours from home in Victoria please know I will never set foot in that garden again!

Megan G. link

8/14/2016 10:44:40 am

I'm so sorry to hear you have been treated this way. It's absolutely appalling!!

My husband and I met because of out mutual love of the Edwardian era, and I can say we both truly admire you two for what you do!

We are hopefully slowly trying to follow in your footsteps a bit and would love to live a turn of the century life full time.

I do wish you lived on this side of the country. (We live in East Tennessee) We've received nothing but kindness from people here. We've been to the historic Biltmore Estate several times in our Period attire and have been met with only good comments.

So I say all that to say, keep doing what you're doing, there are people like us out there who appreciate it!

Louise Taylor

8/14/2016 11:15:53 am

I have sent Butcharts an e-mail to let them know that I don't approve of the way they treated you.

I am so pleased to hear that you enjoyed the rest of your stay!

Allegra Sedney

8/14/2016 11:33:59 am

I sent an email to the garden. Outrageous treatment of you both!

Waldemar

8/14/2016 11:52:50 am

If it was me, I'd have fun calling the managers bluff, reaching inside my jacket as if reaching for a revolver.

gragor

8/14/2016 02:46:25 pm

Wrong country to try pull that off. First of all they wouldn't even know what you were about.

Catherine Alpha

8/14/2016 06:31:48 pm

True. We Canadians are a very peace loving people. We also value polite behaviour and I am so saddened to hear of the extreme rudeness displayed by the Butchart staff. Such rudeness is inexcusable. I am so relieved that this intrepid young couple did not let it ruin their anniversary holiday.

Nancy

8/14/2016 12:10:30 pm

Your behavior was nothing but extraordinary in the face of such revolting prejudice! I will be sharing your story and I hope those 2 reprehensible employees are reprimanded for their complete lack of respect to you both.

Me. Dan Stotland

8/14/2016 12:16:00 pm

Your experience was nothing short of disgusting, and tortious. May I suggest that remonstrating with Burchardt Gardens is a waste of time. Their probable response will be a defense and rational for their misbehavior.
In my opinion, alerting the media is a more profitable avenue of action for yourselves and your followers.
I have researched potential, people to contact to offer a newsworthy and human interest story. (especially for the news starved weekend.
The Federal, British Columbia, Victoria, governments should be apprised of your experience. Why? Because most non-profit museums, art galleries, cultural and historical centers receive public funds from the Government. (i.e. Canadian tax payers' money.). They may wish to review their support of the gardens. It is easy to find out if they are receiving such support.
I have researched contacts of regional newspapers that you may wish to inform of your experience.
British Columbia Newspapers
◦100 Mile House Freepress
◦The Abbotsford Bugel
◦The Abbotsford News
◦Alaska Highway News
◦The Aldergrove Star
◦The Asian Pacific Post (Vancouver)
◦The Asian Star (Greater Vancouver Area)
◦The Awaaz [In Punjabi]
◦BC Interior News
◦Burnaby News Leader
◦Burnaby Now (Burnaby)
◦Business in Vancouver (Vancouver)
◦Cambell River's News (Campbell River)
◦Campbell River News (Vancouver Island)
◦Capital News (Kelowna)
◦The Cariboo Sentinel
◦The Castlegar Source
◦Castlegar Sun
◦The Celtic Connection (Vancouver)
◦Chetwynd Echo
◦The Chief (Squamish)
◦Chilliwack News
◦The Chilliwack Progress
◦Cloverdale Reporter
◦The Coast Reporter (Sechelt)
◦Contacto Directo (Burnaby) [In Spansih & English]
◦Courtenay Comox Valley Record
◦Cowichan News Leader
◦Creston Valley Advance
◦The Daily Courier (Kelowna)
◦Daily News (Kamloops)
◦The Daily Townsman (Cranbrook)
◦The Delta Free Press
◦Duncan Journal
◦East Kootenay News Online Weekly (e-KNOW) (East Kootenays)
◦Esquimalt News (Vancouver Island)
◦Fernie Free Press
◦The Filipino Post (Vancouver) [In English]
◦Fort St James News
◦Friday AM
◦Gabriola Sounder
◦Georgia Straight (Vancouver)
◦Gnome - Opinion (Vancouver) [In Greek & English]
◦The Golden Star (Golden)
◦Goldstream News (Vancouver Island)
◦Good Morning Sunshine

◦Grand Forks Gazette
◦Gulf Islands Online (Salt Spring)
◦Have You Had Enough Yet?
◦Indo Canadian Times (Lower Mainland) [In Punjabi]
◦Indo Canadian Voice (Surrey)
◦The Interior News (Smithers)
◦Island Tides (Gulf Islands)
◦Island Word (Vancouver Island)
◦Kamloops This Week
◦
◦Kelowna.com (Kelowna, Okanagan)
◦Ladysmith News (Vancouver Island)
◦Lakeshore News (Salmon Arm)
◦Langley Times
◦The Leader (Surrey)
◦Lookout (British Columbia)
◦Lusitânia (Vancouver) [Portuguese/English]
◦Maple Ridge Pitt Meadow Bugel
◦Maple Ridge & Pitt Meadow News
◦Merritt Herald
◦Mission News
◦The Morning Star (Vernon)
◦Muzhakkam [In Tami]
◦Nanaimo Daily News (Vancouver island)
◦Nanaimo News Bulletin (Vancouver Island)
◦The Nelson Daily
◦New Westminster Newsleader
◦Northeast Weekly (Dawson Creek, Fort Nelson & Fort St John)
◦North Shore News (Vancouver)
◦The North Shore Outlooks (North & West Vancouver)
◦North Thompson Star Journal (Barriere)
◦Northern Sentinel (Kitimat)
◦The Northerner (Fort St John)
◦Northwest Weekly (Northwestern British Columbia)
◦The Now (Coquitlam, Port Coquitlam & Port Moody)
◦Oakbay News (Vancouver Island)
◦Observer (Agassiz/Harrison)
◦Oliver Chronicle (Oliver)
◦Opinion 250
◦Oru Paper (Quebec & Ontario)
◦The Osoyoos Times (Osoyoos)
◦The Outlook (North & West Vancouver)
◦Parksville Qualicum News (Vancouver Island)
Please contact the various Canadian television television networks such as the C.B.C., www.cbc.ca/television/; C.T.V, & Sun television stations. And divers radio stations.
Please try, CHVC-TV, Valemount, British Columbia.CFEG-TV, Abbotsford, British Columbia
Also the Canadian Auto Association (C.A.A.), and American Auto Association, will most probably be interested in details of the incident.
Etc., etc.
Your friends may also be interested to start a "letter writing campaign' too.
A list of web addresses would be of assistance to them.
I have not canvassed contacts in the United States yet.
Good luck with this "project".
Dan Stotland.

Cherries Jubilee

8/14/2016 03:42:14 pm

I am so glad you salvaged this vacation. Needless to say, i will never visit that place. I would surely be accused of the blackest sin of "wearing Costumes" and be turned away anyway.

I will be sending an email to all of the travel magazines and posting at all the Steampunk sites about the horrible way you were treated.

Patricia G

8/14/2016 06:24:24 pm

As a long-time Victoria resident, my most sincere apologies for the way you and your husband were treated at BG.

Elly

8/15/2016 08:21:34 am

The Butchart Gardens doesn't receive funding from any of the Governments . . . it's a business that is run strictly as a business. Many of the newspapers that you've listed above, are nowhere near Vancouver Island.

As a resident of Victoria, I'm appalled at the treatment of this couple at Butchart Gardens. They were dressed accordingly and just wanted to spend the day enjoying the beautiful gardens . . . I'm glad they managed to get a refund of the money they'd paid out - it is expensive to visit there . . . don't let this discourage you from visiting Victoria - there are many beautiful places around the city to visit that are free or half the price of the admission into Butchart. Rent a car and travel up the Island - there are some lovely little towns outside of Victoria that are worth visiting.

Leah

8/15/2016 09:55:22 am

I would add Chek news to that list, in Victoria most people I know watch Chek at least once a day.

Helen Marsden

8/14/2016 01:01:23 pm

Ive emailed Butcharts to let them know how horrified I am at their refusing you admission. Your clothes are lovely. Glad you didnt let a bad experience spoil your holiday.

Phyl G.

8/14/2016 02:01:20 pm

It had been me, I probably would have taken my clothes off right there at the entrance and try to go in that way. Just to make their day as miserable as they had made mine.

Linda

8/14/2016 02:52:35 pm

I, too, have sent an email to them, letting them know that they have fallen sharply, and deeply, in my esteem.

Dan Stotland

8/14/2016 03:26:51 pm

Please add these further contacts for your followers, to use. Check this site for all manner of web addresses. http://www.mondotimes.com/newspapers/usa/washington.html and
http://www.abyznewslins.com/uniteor.htm.
Also N.B.C., C.B.S., & A.B.C. news
plus the web news media (like Sirius, C.N.N., etc., etc.) the Garden's
behavior surely violates Federal & Provincial discrimination laws. e.g. The Canadian Human Rights Commission of the Federal Government.
I invite all site followers to write a short note to some of the sites mentioned.
It may bring positive results for the Chrisman's and other people and organizations.
There is a huge silver lining to this dark tale.
Ensuing articles, and interviews should alert vast numbers of people about your website, writings, and choice of lifestyle.
Best regards, Dan.

Eunice

8/14/2016 04:51:25 pm

This was beautifully written. I am so sorry that after all of the planning, and saving, that you both did, your original plan was ruined. I am so glad that through your positive attitude, and willingness to explore other options, that you were rewarded with such an amazing experience. You two are a beautiful couple, and your outfits were lovely. I love that you stood up for yourselves, and stood by your convictions! Bravo for being a true lady, and gentleman. Happy anniversary to the both of you, and may you have many more!

Sue Stroud

8/14/2016 05:01:12 pm

I live just a few blocks from Butchart's. I rarely go there because of the expense, but I am appalled to hear about the way you were treated. Those employees need to be fired, the rules need to change and the whole staff will need to be retrained. This is not the way Victorians behave towards their guests. In fact Victorian's love history and tradition and would have enjoyed seeing you walk through the gardens in your beautiful clothes. Jennie Butchart herself wore clothes like yours. I'd attach her picture, but I don't see a way. Just google her and you'll see for yourself. I'm glad the rest of your visit was so lovely and that so many others treated you with the respect you deserve. All the best to you, ~Sue

Ruth Jonasson Cartwright

8/14/2016 07:27:23 pm

I am sure that Mr Ross who was the grandson who ran the gardens for many years would be absolutely flabbergasted. He himself always wore white gloves to direct parking and was very customer service orientated. Very much a black mark for the gardens.

Daphne (Stewart) Duggan

8/15/2016 10:18:16 am

Hello,

I am so very sorry you received this treatment. I was born and raised in Victoria. I have photos of my great grandparents visiting Butchart Gardens. They would have been delighted, I am sure, by your attire, and horrified that you were so ill treated by the staff member at Butchart. Please accept my apologies on behalf of an ill-informed, poorly trained employee of one of our landmarks. I rarely go there myself, but I should expect better treatment, whether in Victorian garb, or any other decent form of dress!

Kate Reed

8/14/2016 05:19:29 pm

I am astonished and angry at how rudely you were treated. There is no excuse for the lack of consideration and civility by the Butchart's staff. I do hope that when you are next in Victoria you will visit the glorious gardens at Government House. Perhaps you already know them, as they are so near Craigdarroch Castle.

Carol

8/14/2016 05:22:32 pm

I am so SO sorry you were treated that way and I'm grateful that even though one door was closed in your face, it led to other wonderful doors being opened.

Alyssa

8/14/2016 05:34:49 pm

Appalling treatment. I wish I could've met you when you were in town, I would've loved to see your clothes!

Serena Bee

8/14/2016 05:40:02 pm

Ironic thing is that BG won't say anything to dissuade foreign visitors who customs include spitting on the ground or smoking like a steam engine, and leaving their butts everywhere because it would be deemed offensive. Sheesh! Glad you had a nice time at the Abkhazi gardens instead. That is where you were supposed to be... BG is full of its own virtue. Their gardens are lovely, but little changes from year to year. Especially at Christmas, same 12 days of Christmas every year. Their entrance fee is ridiculously over priced as you know, but you would have had fun on the carousel... I'm sure if Jennie Butchart were around today you would been greeted warmly, and perhaps had a little special token of appreciation for you manner of dress. Sounds like some people should not been given their jobs as the 'power' has gone to their heads...

Victoria Howard

8/14/2016 05:44:14 pm

I had been to BG as a child, back in the late 70's. Loved it, but if this is how they treat someone who dresses "outside the norm," and btw, you both look fabulous! I would not return. Good for you for standing up for yourselves and getting a FULL refund. I guess Decent Behavior, and customer service are not always the case in BC. Pity, you always hear how nice Canadians are. I love Victoria BC. So glad you had a wonderful anniversary! I wish you many more, and I will email the gardens as well!!

Jana Keeler link

8/14/2016 06:25:58 pm

So sorry you were treated so rudely and i will be sending an email to Butchard Gardens. Many others have more eloquently explained how you live your life this way and how ridiculous their explanation of their policy was.

I am the co-founder of the Great Bay Area Costumer's Guild based in San Francisco and founded in 1990. In all the years of visiting many historic sites, museums and the such no one refused us admission. One of our favorite yearly events was in a historic town about 90 miles south of San Francisco. They had a Victorian Ball in one of their historic buildings and you could walk and shop through the whole town and it was one of our favorite events of the year. After a few years of attending were were sent a letter requesting us not to appear in "costume" anymore at their event. They were concerned that the regular folks would mistake us for one their docents (sound familiar?). I explained that that had already happened over the years and we all politely pointed the persons to the docents and that our "costumes' truly were clothing to us. We did not go back the next year and then received another letter asking/(begging) us to come back! A few did but said it wasn't the same.

So Butchart Gardens, don't equate the Chrismans to people who wants to dress like insects (though frankly that sounded kind of cute). Had you let them enter they would have only added the ambiance of the gardens.

Yvonne

8/14/2016 07:21:46 pm

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience, but heartened that you were able to turn it around and still have a wonderful time. Incidentally, if you go for High Tea at the Empress, they absolutely love it when you come in historical attire :)

Yoya

8/14/2016 07:47:54 pm

Congratulations on your Anniversary, I am so happy for the two of you!😃
You both are a lovely couple!!! I love the clothes you both wear and have to say I always have dressed in modest feminine clothing since a young teenage girl. My daughter's do as well and we get complimented everywhere we go.
I am so sorry that something like this happened to the two of you😳. I can see that if you were offensive in your behavior or completely nude they would ask you to leave but this???? It's so wrong! What kind of a world do we live in where dressing nice is forbidden? I will make sure all my friends hear about this. We all dress the way you do, like decent ladies. We live close to where you probably do and never get looked down on. I too intend to write to BG to say how disappointed I was in their treatment of a beautiful young couple as yourselves. Please continue to be the edifying couple you are and please, never change the way you dress, I would love to run into you some day😃😃.

John Peter 5th

8/14/2016 09:16:20 pm

email has been sent requested policy review and public apology

Vanessa Maria

8/14/2016 09:38:32 pm

I saw you both on Government St. near Pandora when you were possibly heading to Chinatown....I complimented you as I passed saying "You look really good !". It was delightful and refreshing seeing people dressed like you were !

What Butcharts did treating you so horribly and being discriminating based on your clothing is reprehensible and ridiculous !

Danielle

8/14/2016 09:40:27 pm

Like others, I'm horrified and embarrassed by this terrible experience and grateful others were able to make you welcome again, but I'm stuck on this one thing...

Namely, who offers a High Tea but demands the removal of a Lady's hat? Isn't that... thats not how its supposed to work. Beautiful hats like yours are the -point- of High Tea! Sheesh.

Danielle Blackwood

8/14/2016 09:49:49 pm

Having lived in Victoria for many years until recently, I am appalled at the treatment you received. The Butchardt Gardens in my opinion is an overpriced, overblown tourist trap. I am so happy to hear that you found much better treatment and honestly, I imagine a much better time in your other wanderings of Victoria. I love your clothes, and I love the Victorian period with a passion. I want to buy your book. I wish you and your husband a very happy anniversary, and if you ever want to visit Salt Spring Island, we have a guest cottage.

James R Griesemer

8/14/2016 10:17:40 pm

Dear Sarah and Gabriel,

My wife and I have been attending vintage dance events for almost 30 years now and we love to dress in vintage attire, many times in public. It warms our hearts to see both of you embracing the lifestyle that you have chosen. You are living historians! Please don't let the ignorant staff and management of Butchart Gardens dishearten you with the choice you have made for yourselves. There is an entire community of vintage dancers and re-enactors who support who you are and what you are doing. Your story is now being shared through the various vintage communities.

We encountered I milder version of this treatment at the Top of the Mark, in the Mark Hopkins Hotel in San Francisco. It was not as awful of an experience as you endured. But, it certainly was enough to mar the spirit of the evening, which was the kick-off event for a vintage dance weekend. Interestingly, the word "costume" was also thrown at us, only they limited it to our hats.

Keep doing what you are doing! And, by the way, you both look fantastic!

Sincerely yours,
--Jim

Amy A

8/14/2016 10:25:38 pm

I'm so sorry you had such an unpleasant experience in my home town, on your anniversary no less! The alternative attractions you were able to visit I think were even better choices. I adore Abkhazi and would go there over Butchart any day. The castle is gorgeous too of course, and the museum is endlessly entertaining. I hope you will come back again and check out the Japanese gardens at Hatley Castle and Esquimalt Gorge park, or the excellent Finnerty Gardens up at UVIC.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 08:55:36 am

Those sound lovely!

Lindsay

8/14/2016 10:51:22 pm

I am so sorry to her of your treatment by staff at Butchart Gardens. I am ashamed at the behavior of my fellow Victorians. I will also send an email on your behalf.
I had not heard of the Abkhazi Gardens before, I will take your suggestion and visit them as well.
I was glad to hear you enjoyed the rest of your stay in Victoria. I also enjoy Beacon Hill Park, The Royal BC Museum and visiting Murchies for tea!

chas_m

8/14/2016 11:16:11 pm

Very sorry to hear of your experience. I too have passed on my comments and a link to this to Butchart. In the meantime, I'm delighted you found Victoria itself and our lovely Beacon Hill Park so delightful (we live half a block away from it). I hope you get your wish to see the Butchart Gardens at some point in the future.

Mishi

8/14/2016 11:23:40 pm

I found this post when a friend shared it on Facebook. After discussing what happened to you and your husband with my boyfriend, we've decided that if we ever go to Butchart Gardens again (and it's a very big IF! We're so mad we're considering the possibility of never returning, even though we live in Victoria and have public transit passes!) we're going to go all out with our own preferred expression of our lifestyle, and see if they consider THAT a costume! (I have been shifting to a more 1950's sort of lifestyle, for my own reasons, and my boyfriend is starting to shift as well, especially since I've become physically disabled but still held fast to the values that lead to my choice.)

Whenever you are in Victoria again feel free to look us up, we'll gladly have you around for a meal in our own backyard garden.

Mishi

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 08:58:38 am

Thank you for your kind offer of a visit! It is very sweet of you. :)

Anny Fanny

8/14/2016 11:25:20 pm

I am so sorry to hear of the appalling behaviour of the staff at BG. good for you for standing up for your principles and for demanding a full refund. It is highly overpriced and not accessible to many folks because of this. Your ability to make lemonade out of lemons is commendable. You might want to research Craigdarroch Castle's history..it is very interesting. Congratulations on your anniversary. Best wishes..

Jennifer Isle

8/15/2016 12:20:07 am

I feel so bad for you, that was such a horrible thing to happen! I think your lifestyle is wonderful, and I fail to understand how anyone could find fault with it! Rest assured I will never set foot in BG after this.

Sylvia Hurd

8/15/2016 12:58:19 am

I was outraged when I read how you were treated at Butchard gardens. I myself have been wanting to visit them but after your experience I have decided to cross them off my list. I am ashamed, as a born British Columbian, that you were treated with such disrespect. If I were you, I would sue them for discrimination. How dare they?

Sarah link

8/15/2016 02:06:38 am

I think you should complain to Canada Racism body on grounds of "religious" "Cluture " dress . Would they deny others if they were dressed in religious clothes as part of their faith or dress code of their culture . NO

Etta Jenkins

8/15/2016 04:51:47 am

I too have sent an email lambasting them. I live in England. So now the complaints are going international! Disgusting behaviour but you and your husband rose above it with style and grace .

Clarissa Thompson

8/15/2016 06:21:10 am

My apologies that you were treated so deplorably at Buchart Gardens! When I went to post on their FB page I was pleased to see a comment already regarding your ordeal! I added my own thoughts on the subject in the reply section of the previous comment along with a link to this blog entry. I'm so embarrassed, being a former Victoria resident, but I am glad the rest of the city showed you a good time! Please don't let the poor conduct of BG color your view of British Columbia and Canada, we welcome you anytime!

Roxanne Lutz link

8/15/2016 06:22:57 am

As a friend and fellow historical clothing enthusiast I was dismayed to hear of the deplorable treatment you experienced at Butchart Gardens. I have sent the following complaint to their PR contact. Treating any person with disdain because of their appearance is grotesque discrimination and I would like to think that, in 2016, any establishment would eschew this type of behaviour. Shame on those employees and shame on Butchart Gardens if they allow this kind of behaviour by employees to continue!

Dear Butchart Gardens,

It has come to my attention that recently two members of your staff (Bryan and J. Tomlinson) refused to admit advance ticket-holders Mrs. & Mr. Chrisman based solely on the fact they were dressed in Victorian-style clothing.

This couple had carefully planned their trip to celebrate their wedding anniversary, with a visit to Butchart Gardens being the main event. As these two are American citizens, living many hours away, not only did they pre-purchase their admission tickets and tour bus fare to your venue, but also the fee for the high-tea repast occurring on your property that day. The couple spent significant time, effort and expense planning and executing this trip and were very excited to visit Butchart Gardens which they had been long awaiting.
So, it was to my dismay and frankly utter astonishment that I should hear that upon arrival from the United States that they should be greeted at the garden’s visitor centre by the poorest example of good customer service I have ever heard of. The couple greeted your employee and, instead of the courteous welcome they’d expect at a visitor centre, they were instead told they would have to “change their clothes”. The couple explained that, being on vacation, changing their clothing was impossible as their daily attire consists only of historical, Victorian-style clothing; in fact, this style of clothing is the only kind they wear! I trust I need not explain to you how offensive and unreasonable a request this was, made by your staff, particularly considering there is no dress code detailed on the Butchart Gardens website. Further, upon calling a senior staff member, this senior member escalated the situation instead of offering an amicable resolution. These two employees proceeded to treat the couple rudely, centering them out from anyone else in attendance, all due to their appearance.

As a Canadian citizen who believes in treating all people equally without prejudice, and who frequents many venues, businesses and festivals in historical clothing, I am outraged and embarrassed on behalf of our country to hear of anyone having such an experience, let alone visitors who I know to be polite and reasonable individuals.
The outrageous treatment that Mrs. Chrisman and her husband received at the hands of your employees is even more scandalous given that, just this winter, Butchart Gardens promoted a “historical display” on the grounds at Benvenuto, the Butchart Residence, detailing how the family lived in the early 1900s: close to the era which Mrs. & Mr. Chrisman embody in their choice of lifestyle. In fact, Mrs. Chrisman has written two books on the subject as well as her popular website and blog http://www.thisvictorianlife.com/blog. Members of the Butchart family are said to have been world travellers… imagine how they might have felt, upon reaching their coveted destination, being treated so rudely après a long journey simply because their clothing wasn’t from the “right” era. By the low standards of hospitality exemplified by the aforementioned employees, the original Butchart family would themselves have been refused admittance to the gardens today!

I am certain that upon reflection you will agree that treating any person with distain because of their appearance is grotesque discrimination and I would like to think that, in 2016, an establishment like Butchart Gardens would eschew this type of treatment. I say, shame on the employees that treated these customers so despicably and shame on Butchart Gardens if this behaviour is permitted to continue.

Regrettably,
Roxanne Lutz

Suzanne link

8/15/2016 08:55:45 am

Very well written, Roxanne!

Roxanne Lutz link

8/17/2016 04:20:18 pm

Thank you Suzanne and thank you to all who showed support to the Chrismans! :)

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 08:38:02 am

Ditto! :) Thank you EVERYONE! :)

Bryan Bennica

8/15/2016 06:48:53 am

I am appalled at the way you two were treated by that organization. A refund was definitely in order.

Chad

8/15/2016 06:58:19 am

First off, happy anniversary to both of you.

I have a lot of respect for anyone that makes choices for themselves that puts them outside of the realms of what's "normal" in our cultural. The fact that the small minded individuals existed to not fathom to implications of denying some pretty basic human rights in Victoria doesn't surprise me in the least. There are a lot of very sheltered small people here.

I've been lucky enough to travel a lot in my lifetime and the admission fee at Butchart garden is exploitative. It's embarrassing to me that a family could easily have to spend $100 or more to enjoy a garden. I've been to gardens at a fraction of that cost or free that were much more enjoyable.

I'm happy you both had a chance to explore Beacon Hill Park which is great and enjoyed some of what else Victoria has to offer. My apologies on behalf of the much more reasonable people of Victoria for the rude and completely inappropriate behavior you received while here. All the best to both of you :)

Stephanie

8/15/2016 07:41:20 am

When you mentioned us who want to be original but feel we cant. That touched my heart. And I understand sort of where the garden is coming from. You are so unique that it could not possibly be real. So to them they thought they were upholding policy. But the manner which they did it is completely unacceptable. They did not even want to know that your clothes were only a fraction of your lifestyle. In a perfect scenario they should have issued a full refund no questions or assumptions. This is something you probably live with often. Rejection. And that is the hardest thing to do. But, including me, there are so many who support you in all you do. I read your blogs and enjoy your photos. This is something I want to do. Instead I enjoy renaissance fairs and halloween. I color my hair very color under the rainbow. I can not do 'normal'. Because it is an expression of who I am. Its the only 'odd' thing about me. Your 'oddness' (I quote them for the fact that it is out of what modern society has come too) shows a simpler lifestyle dominated by manners, elegance, hard work. Not by instant gratification, the need to move faster in a race of life. I cannot tell you the last time I enjoyed a garden. Or stopped to smell the flowers. I think I envy not the style of your life but the core meaning... enjoyment, happiness, and to be able to enjoy the roses whatever the situation may be.

Chantal

8/15/2016 08:00:34 am

I will never go back, never!

Kimberly

8/15/2016 08:22:20 am

I'm sorry you were treated like that. You two are lovely.

Patrick Longworth

8/15/2016 08:24:08 am

I am appalled and astonished that gardens staff dared to be so blunt and rude to customers. Thank you for sharing your whole experience with us!

Carrie Martin

8/15/2016 08:38:32 am

I'm so glad that your awful treatment at Butchart didn't ruin the rest of your trip to Victoria. I'm embarrassed to hear of such horrible treatment at what is supposed to be one of our most famous landmarks. Good for you for rising above and continuing on to have a great holiday. Victoria has a lot to offer and I'm glad you were able to find some new hidden gems :) If you ever want a lovely relaxing seaside vacation may I suggest coming to Sooke, we are a wonderful welcoming community 40 minutes outside Victoria. Lots of wonderful community events in the summer and scenery to die for!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 08:57:35 am

Sooke is, indeed, lovely! We visited there briefly on our honeymoon. :)

N. Valencia

8/15/2016 08:51:52 am

As a lifetime Victoria resident I am so disappointed to hear of your experience. I am so glad that you hear that you had such a lovely visit regardless of their bad behaviour. It just so happens that I work in a law firm above the Bard and Banker building and I think I saw you both walking along the street while you were here. You made me smile ❤️ Hope you will choose our lovely city for your next vacation. Emily Carr's house is a must see Victorian spot as well as tea at Point Ellis house!!!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 08:42:51 am

We love Point Ellice house! :) We went there years ago when we were newly married. We ran out of time to go there on this trip, but we're definitely planning on visiting next time. :) I love their website where they show a lot of the artifacts in their collection (https://pointellicehouse.com/virtual-tour/); it was actually, in part, a model for how I set up our own website.

Suzanne link

8/15/2016 08:53:59 am

Dear Sarah and Gabriel,
I read your recounting with shock! There are no appropriate words to describe exactly how reprehensible your treatment by these people was. How sorry I am you had to go through this, but I take great pleasure in knowing you triumphed over the whole dastardly situation. I shall be emailing them a curt letter also stating how appalled I am at their treatment of you. What has happened to our society when we accept half-naked girls flitting about, showing vulgar tatoos, and men in wife beater t-shirts looking like absolute slobs instead of the smartly, elegant dress you both present.
Kindly,
Suzanne

Keith Rosenberg link

8/15/2016 09:18:53 am

After reading your story I have to say I am sorry for the way you were treated here. Victoria is a wonderful city with many beautiful sites to see.I worked as a tour guide here and would often tell people that the Gardens out there were over priced and some of our heritage homes have wonderful gardens that are free to look at. I now have a photography business and recommend against doing engagement photos there as the cost is too high. To that end I would like to make you an offer. If you come back to Victoria my family and I would be honoured to show you around our city and I would like to offer you a photo shoot all free of charge. While I know that the trip can be expensive, the tour and the photo shoot will be at no cost. We can pick you at the ferry and drive you to the hotel. Hope you enjoyed the other sites while you were here.

Shirley

8/15/2016 09:45:34 pm

I hope this delightful couple sees this post and takes you up on this generous offer.

Victoria Howard

8/16/2016 08:28:00 pm

Oh how wonderful and kind is your offer! I hope they can take you up on it!!! So kind!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 09:01:36 am

Dear Mr. Rosenberg,

Thank you so much for your kind and generous offer! I've sent you an e-mail. :)

Best wishes,
Sarah

Lotus

8/15/2016 09:19:52 am

I think you both look amazing! My daughter absolutely loves that period of history. How disgusting the way you were treated at Butchart! You know, you didn't miss much anyway, the place is so overpriced it is ridiculous and I think Abkhazi Garden and Craigdarroch Castle are far nicer places to visit! Glad you enjoyed your Victoria visit depite the rough start!

Tracy

8/15/2016 09:33:24 am

I love that you were able to enjoy the rest of your anniversary getaway, and enjoy far more than originally thought with the expense of BG.
I am so very sorry for the way that you were treated. That was unexceptable!
We leave on the east coast of Canada and one day plan on another trip west to Victoria to visit family. BG will no longer be on our want to see list. Instead we would love to visit some of the other gardens you discovered. Thank you for sharing and reliving such a horrible moment in time.
Stay true to you. Thank you for that.

Cathy link

8/15/2016 09:54:13 am

I wonder if they would turn Hutterites, Amish or Mennonites away? You were treated deplorably. I have never been to Butchart Gardens and I will never patronize it because of this. Shame on them.

Cantseemytoes

8/15/2016 10:07:59 am

Wow, you 2 handled yourselves much better than I would have. It looks like the rest of your trip was great though. Sorry to hear you were treated in such a manner, not acceptable nor what I would have expected. If you are out the Alberta way in Calgary there is a park called Heritage Park that you might enjoy.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:33:35 pm

Thanks for the recommendation of Heritage Park! :) My grandma grew up near Calgary and I've always wanted to go there someday. Someday... :)

Vivienne Gibson

8/15/2016 10:52:13 am

I have only lived in Canada for 10 years but had visited Butchart Gardens 3 times. Every Christmas since I have been here I have contemplated buying yearly passes to Butchart Gardens but the cost has been prohibitive. After reading of your experience and how, for the cost of "enjoying" a day there, you were able to do all of those other wonderful things in Victoria, I will no longer feel drawn to a place that could treat you in such a manner. I want to thank you for doing the exploring and finding all these places and for the information about them. Some of them I had known about but not all of them. Butchart Gardens henceforth will be off my list of places to visit with overseas guests.

Judy Scott

8/15/2016 11:00:02 am

I am seriously shocked by the behaviour of these two employees at Butchart Gardens. How two people, dressed in vintage Victorian clothes can be denied entry to Victoria's most iconic garden, is beyond my comprehension. I sent a letter as soon as I read your story, and hope they get enough backlash to make changes to their customer relations policies. I am sorry you went through such an ordeal, and impressed you made the best of your stay, in spite of it. Happy Anniversary!

Kristi - Oops Lost My Phone

8/15/2016 11:01:46 am

I'm really so sorry this hapoened to you. Butchard Gardens is an overdone, overrated tourist trap that doesn't deserve your business. Please don't let their actions reflect poorly on Vancouver Island - their snobbery is not representative of Island hospitality. Please come back and visit Milner Gardens in Qualicum Beach :)

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:36:35 pm

Thanks for the recommendation of Milner Gardens! :) I've written it down for the next time we're in the area.

Chad

8/15/2016 11:14:59 am

Hi again,

I would recommend contacting the Canadian Human Rights Commission site at http://www.chrc-ccdp.gc.ca/index.html. The basis of you both being denied access to the parks in all likelihood represents a violation of Canadian Human Rights law.

All the best and I hope they realize completely wrong it was for them to treat you that way.

Cheers,
Chad

Gwendolyn

8/15/2016 11:15:28 am

I saw you in town, and you looked great!!! If I had seen you at the gardens it would have been one more reason to remember my visit there, not a "distraction". You handled yourselves brilliantly. I really hope you don't think we're all a bunch of "must follow the rules at all costs" people in Victoria. I could adopt you (age wise!), and love your individual way of thinking and living. The world needs a lot more people like you!

Alsatia Kaiser

8/15/2016 11:20:42 am

I am appalled at this story. I'm a season's pass holder at the Butchart Gardens and cannot believe the audacity of the garden's staff to treat you in this manner. To be frank, I'm reconsidering my pass and further visits to the garden due to this horrific exposé.
I frequent the gardens in 1950's clothing, and am shocked that they have never stopped me from entering. I was there this past weekend, and witness a lovely Japanese girl in a modernized geisha skirt and blouse, yet she was not stopped. With my next visit I intend to perform an experiment and enter the visitor's center first and see what kind of fuss they attempt to create with my swing dress, crinoline, and large hat. It is, perchance, that they stopped you only because you needed to visit their center first.
The document which contains the information about costumes, is not readily discovered on their website. It is the "garden etiquette" on the hours page. I wonder how many people click that link? Especially since it specifically addresses the issue of blocking pathways with selfie-sticks, and strollers. Both of which detracted from my last visit, as I had a difficult time navigating around them. Have they ever been stopped and spoken to? Not to my witness.
I'm happy to say that their review page on Facebook has been flooded with one star reviews backing your horrendous experience. With luck, the owners of the property will rectify the situation.

If you find yourself in Victoria again, I do recommend (if you have not) visiting the Lieutenant Governor's gardens, just down the hill from Craigdarroch Castle. The gardens are free, and tea is run by volunteers. The tea house, while not as glamourous, provides a wonderful lunch and tea menu, which I highly recommend.
I'm happy that our fair city was able to rectify such a terrible start to your anniversary, and that the over-hyped tourist attraction didn't deter you from visiting again.
Happy Anniversary!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:39:05 pm

Thank you for the recommendation about the Lieutenant Governor's gardens! They sound lovely!

Bry

8/15/2016 11:23:43 am

As a resident of Victoria, I am so sorry this happened. Butchart should be ashamed of themselves. My husband and I usually go there every winter... Not any more!

Happy Anniversary to you both.

Tricia

8/15/2016 11:26:54 am

I am sickened and disgusting at how you were treated! I have sent them a scathing email now! Glad you posted it. Victoria is a beautiful city full of many lovely locals who appreciate diversity at every level! I'm sorry that was your experience at butchart gardens, very very sorry. I'm glad that you found some solace exploring the area on your anniversary!
Cheers, tricia

Lotus

8/15/2016 11:42:21 am

(ps....the photo you used is Prince Nicholas' father.....Konstantine (Kote) Abkhazi, not Prince Nicholas ....just for your info :-) )

Sarah

8/15/2016 12:03:14 pm

Thank you for letting me know about the photo! I've made the appropriate correction. :)

Lotus

8/15/2016 12:16:49 pm

you're welcome!

Sharlene

8/15/2016 12:16:47 pm

I am so sorry to hear about your terrible treatment at BG. I have lived in Victoria for 20+ years, but will no longer recommend or go to the gardens. Thank you for sharing your experience, and I will send an email to the gardens as well.
Keep up your bright, positive outlook and attitude, it outshines the negative people.

Angie

8/15/2016 12:57:43 pm

Come to Sherbrooke Village on the Easter Shore of Nova Scotia the next time you go on holiday. We'll be happy to have you visit.
https://sherbrookevillage.novascotia.ca/
Our Blacksmiths ride a penny farthing too!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:40:21 pm

Thank you for the recommendation! Nova Scotia's a bit far from us, but one never knows what life has in store! :)

Mary Berlanda

8/15/2016 12:59:48 pm

Hello, I live in Duncan just outside of Victoria and was quite upset about your experience for several reasons. To me this is an example of discrimination. I am very proud to be Canadian because of the freedom we have to uphold our individual identities and cultures. We claim multiculturalism as our identity. I have volunteered for many years with refugees new to our country, so human rights is very dear to my heart. Because of your cultural lifestyle you could be considered as a visible minority. I wonder if Amish visitors to BG are asked to change their clothes, or anyone wearing their cultural clothing, such as from Africa, India or Asia or even wedding parties for that matter. I checked their website and apparantly they provide wedding packages, so I assume one can wear a wedding dress. All that I have listed above were probably allowed entry as the way they dress are considered more mainstream. Last week for the first time in 35 years I bought a seasons pass to BG so I could visit more often especially when I have visitors. ( It was only my third visit in that many years.) It was cheaper than the regular price for two visits. I will email them with my comments about their discriminatory practices. They are followimg a fine line prohibiting what people may or may not wear. This is a human right issue. Have you considered writing an article or editoria to Victoria's newspaper the Times Colonist?

Amy Newman

8/18/2016 12:53:36 am

Apparently a wedding dress, or any nice white dress is also forbidden, as this woman reported in 2014: "attire resembling a wedding is not allowed to enter the gardens" \https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserReviews-g184850-d155441-r222511723-Butchart_Gardens-Central_Saanich_Victoria_Capital_Regional_District_Vancouver_Isl.html

Absolutely ridiculous!
BG's ignorance and lack of customer service is shocking, asking them to remove their hats was most insulting. As my late mother used to say, "A Lady is not required to remove her hat, it is part of her costume."

I will direct my international guests elsewhere until they revamp their policies and hiring practices.

Andria Stone

8/15/2016 01:27:34 pm

I am very sorry to hear that you were treated this way. I hope that this one bad experience did not ruin the rest of your stay. I am appalled at how you and your husband were treated. I wanted to let you know that I did send an email to Butchart Gardens letting them know how appalled I am by how they treated you.

Gail

8/15/2016 01:37:32 pm

You are more than welcome to visit us in the Money Museum of the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland. We would love to see you!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 06:12:26 pm

Thank you! I hope we can go there someday. :)

Suzanne

8/15/2016 01:39:31 pm

the story is utterly bizarre. It is one's comportment that is most important. What this story tells me more about is how the place is run. Clearly it is rule-oriented and hierarchical to the nth degree. One can guess it's not much fun working there. It's just plain weird how you were treated. Weird.

Navit link

8/15/2016 02:03:29 pm

Letter written...To whom it may concern,

I live in Victoria and am a well known seamstress/ designer and air B and B host. People ask me everyday for great places to go. When I heard how you treated some well dressed, polite and excited people whom had prepaid and planed their trip to Victoria and butchart gardens, I was appalled. You denied them admission and they had a hard time getting their money back and tried to make them feel inferior to you. As I also wear "different and more eclectic clothing" than most of our society, I would fear your turning me away at the gate with my family without proper handling. How you ( Jake/John Tomlinson) decided to start treating people without respect and simple curtesy, never mind your lack of kindness during any 'confusion', is despicable. All clothing are costumes. If you draw the line at swimsuits and animal costumes, fine, but any type of 'clothing' is not up to you to judge. Otherwise write it up in every pamphlet Butchart Gardens hand out, "dress code" to enter the expensive gardens. I will definitely not be referring people to your gardens anymore and will share this unfortunate experience these people had.

Yours in creativity in action,
Navit Giauque
DreamThreads.net
250-995-8499

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:50:47 pm

Dear Navit,

Thank you for your kind support! I hope you don't mind that I added your Dream Threads business to our Resource Links page: http://www.thisvictorianlife.com/resource-links.html (under both "Fashion" and "Seamstress") If you'd like me to remove the link, just let me know!

Best,
Sarah

Liz

8/15/2016 02:14:06 pm

Well, how bizarre! I just can't imagine what they were thinking about, nor can I fathom why they were so rude. I'm very impressed you refused to let it colour the rest of your trip too much & that you found so many other lovely places here. May I also suggest Point Ellice House, & second the suggestion above of the Lieutenant Governor's (near Craigdarroch). The grounds at the latter are lovely, and wrap around the house. The grounds are open & free and at the back of the house is a path from which you can see all over Fairfield & out to sea. There's a little costume museum there & (in season) a lovely tea room. It's on Rocklands Avenue.

You may also enjoy a wander around James Bay (the neighbourhood to the south of the legislature and to the west of Beacon Hill) - it has many beautiful period houses.

I love my city so much - I'm so sorry you were treated that way.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:53:33 pm

James Bay is lovely! We love admiring all the beautiful homes there. :)

Denise Jonas

8/15/2016 02:35:53 pm

Disgusted to hear what you endured on your visit. While not for me, I admire your dress and your lifestyle.

It seems that BG could stand a reminder that the tones and actions of their current staff can have far more detrimental impact that having people such as yourselves mistaken for staff and politely corrected.

Happy Anniversary!!!

Constance Crain

8/15/2016 03:02:50 pm

Bullies who are on a power trip over something so stupid get zero respect from me. Good for you for sticking to your guns regarding full refund. Please permit me to spread the word, especially to my favorite Canadians and public opinion influencers. I treasure the freedom to wear whatever the heck I want and support you in bringing beauty and charm to the world. Be whatever you want to be, do whatever you want to do, just so long as you don't hurt anybody.

Maria Lawrence

8/15/2016 04:35:22 pm

I was also very shocked to hear about your experience with Butchard gardens and have written them. I am sorry this happened to you. There are so many other important issues in the world today worth attention, but this one being so close to home prompted me to write them and ask for a further explanation. Why do they find it necessary to restrict access to certain people based on what they are wearing? I personally don't believe Victorian attire to be offensive. I have always admired it in fact, and you could only enhance the gardens with your presence. Its a big part of the history of earlier days of Victoria and Butchart Gardens, My husband's grandfather was a contracted gardener at Butcharts. I have visited your website before and am fascinated by the way you choose to live. I have one question, who does the computer work? Is that one thing you allow in your chosen lifestyle? I hope something good will surface out of this. I wish you both well, and thank you for choosing to visit Victoria and complimenting our city.

Maria Lawrence

8/15/2016 04:36:22 pm

oops think I forgot to add my email to the comment I just sent you.

Maria lawrence

8/15/2016 06:53:13 pm

Hi again, you are missing the first message I sent as I forgot to include the email. Is it lost?

Maria Lawrence

8/15/2016 09:48:16 pm

thanks I see it now.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:54:41 pm

Glad that got cleared up. :) Thanks for your support!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 06:11:26 pm

P.S. Regarding your question about the computer work, basically, we use computers to replace Victorian infrastructures and technologies that are no longer available. (There's no telegraph anymore; Sears & Roebuck no longer sells Victorian button boots through the mail, etc.) I discuss the matter in my book, "This Victorian Life". For more on the parallels between Victorian technologies and modern computer use I recommend reading "The Victorian Internet" (non-fiction) by Tom Standage and listening to the following pieces by the BBC:
"Online Dating and the Lonely Hearts Ad": http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06vkcf2
"Documenting the Self: Victorian Diaries and 21st-Century Social Media": http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04vdy0y

Maria

8/20/2016 01:28:22 pm

Thank you for your response to my question about computer communication. I admire your lifestyle and hope one day to visit Port Townsend again. We have fond memories of our previous visit when our daughters were children. I have always admired the beautiful Victorian homes and beauty of the dress and other customs of that era. Port Townsend reminds me of a cross between Victoria and Nelson, BC where we used to live. You have reinspired me to visit, and hope to see you and your husband about town! I also am appreciating all the support you have been receiving and rightfully so.

Tarsie F.

8/15/2016 04:41:26 pm

I'm so sorry that you had to experience such low-brow attitude from the service personnel. What if you had been an Amish couple? They are just as covered up, antiquated styles and head coverings. Would they have insisted the same of you then? I think not. Your choice of clothing and personal living needs to be treated just the same.

Crystal

8/15/2016 04:45:21 pm

Almost sent an entire wedding party the way of this garden, so glad we could turn those plans around. Here's to individualism and free-thinkers. There's literally no valid reason that "costumes" of any description couldn't be worn in a garden, lest they drag on the floor or were too wide for paths in that they could endanger the garden. Wearing your everyday clothes, gown, suit, whatever you choose - should not have been met with any objections whatsoever. I'm appalled, and my respect for Butchart is no longer existent.

Krista

8/15/2016 04:52:24 pm

While I'm certain the time you spent at Butchart was excruciatingly awful, I choose to believe it was meant to happen that way. You were meant to take a different tour through our beautiful city, one that saw you go all over the place, spreading your wonderful joie de vivre and love of being true to yourself. The good vibes you spread, and the wonderful sharing of the 'secret gems' in my town, was how it was meant to happen. Thanks for sharing all the pieces of this story; you are an inspiration!

RRU Kidding link

8/15/2016 06:26:04 pm

Too bad you didn't make it to Hatley Castle and Gardens. There's an admission price there too but it's a lot less than Butchart and your Victorian attire would have been welcomed, appreciated, and (almost - the castle was built in 1908) completely fit right in!

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 05:56:20 pm

Thank you for the recommendation about Hatley Castle! It's definitely on our to-see list. :)

Brigid

8/15/2016 07:16:03 pm

Apparently you are not the first to be turned away from Butchart Gardens for being too well dressed. Disgraceful policy, badly implemented. https://www.tripadvisor.ca/ShowUserReviews-g184850-d155441-r222511723-Butchart_Gardens-Central_Saanich_Victoria_Capital_Regional_District_Vancouver_Isl.html

Rosie Roman

8/15/2016 07:50:15 pm

Dear Sarah, What a terrible thing to have experienced! I met you at Port Townsend, WA. I purchased your book, had a lovely tea with you and my good friend Te'a Stegenga, and you gave me a massage when my legs swelled up, 2 winters ago. It was an absolute pleasure to meet you and see you in your wonderful clothes, and see you driving around on your bike! What a loss for that garden, missing out on your pleasurable company!!!!! You and your husband would have been a wonderful addition to their garden. SHAME on THEM!!!! They will also receive an email from me!! But I am very happy that you and your husband were able to save your anniversary trip and enjoy it. Now that's a comeback :). Hope to see you again. And,,, HAPPY ANNIVERSARY😍

Catherine-Maria Robb

8/15/2016 08:07:01 pm

My brother sent this to me as he lives in Vancouver. I can't believe the way you were treated just trying to be yourselves. I'm glad to here the rest of your trip was much better. I happen to the your style and I've always thought it was lovely the way people used to dress so modest and classy. I happen to this you both look wonderful dressed as you do. Where I grew up it was not unfamiliar to us to see people dress in the same style. I grew up in Eastern Ontario where there are several people I've met with similar life styles.
Carry on being you and the good people of this world will be there to welcome you. Remember you got to see far more beauty that you missed on your trip!!

Crystal

8/15/2016 08:11:46 pm

They were worried you'd be mistaken for Staff, so they offered you Staff uniforms? Wut?

R. Smith link

8/15/2016 08:27:23 pm

Unfortunate you didn't know about the Horticulture Center of the Pacific. A beautiful garden with lots of art scattered around. [some of it mine] Other than that I am ashamed you were treated like that. Apologies from a resident. R.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 06:15:01 pm

Thanks for the recommendation of the Horticulture Center of the Pacific! I've added to our list of future places to visit!

Betty Simmons

8/15/2016 08:40:48 pm

What a lovely piece of writing and, truly, lovely couple. I'm bookmarking this page so I can read more about you. I'm an actor at The Great Dickens Christmas Fair in San Francisco and have been in the world of historical recreation for decades. You clothing, your manner, your exceptional way of dealing with the people at "the" garden are all representative of the highest standards of Victorian life. You enriched your own life and knowledge of history and culture as a result of the actions of two insensitive people and your unwillingness to let them rule you. Your exploration of the wonders of Victoria were far richer than anything you could have experienced at the other location. Your descriptions of the fine treatment and respect you received at the hands of others sets a fine example for the world of today. You make me wish everyone dressed Victorian - or in the clothing of their own culture - and brought their best manners with them.

Karen link

8/15/2016 08:58:39 pm

First of all, congratulations on your anniversary!
I have not been to Butchart Gardens for more than 3 decades, and it is a place I had wanted to visit with my husband someday. However, I have learned from your experience and I will be seeking out the parks and gardens which you and your commenters have written about here.
I am sorry that you were treated so shabbily; I am impressed that you rose above the distressing circumstances and made your holiday a lovely one indeed.

Sarah

8/15/2016 10:06:28 pm

I am incredibly sorry for how you were treated. It is frustrating and impossible to put into words how angry it makes me that people think it's ok to treat other human beings that way. But the silver lining is that you may not have seen the rest of this beautiful city otherwise! I was not born and raised in Victoria but have called it home for the past 5 years and I am always trying to convince people to explore the city rather than head to Butchart! It warms my heart that you were able to have the proper Canadian/Victoria BC experience for your anniversary! The universe works in mysterious ways.
The world needs more people like you, Unafraid of being themselves.
Please keep on being a positive example for all those afraid to stand up for themselves!

Alan B.

8/15/2016 10:08:44 pm

My wife and I were totally astounded by the actions of these two employees. As a business owner, I would prepare dismissal forms for both. We are Canadian's and do not treat others regardless of their nationality and/or beliefs. As a local we will not visit the Gardens ever again nor will we suggest to friends and others to go there. May I suggest that the Gardens re-visit their policies...

CBJB

8/16/2016 09:01:18 am

Thanks for this recap of your time in Vixtoria and sorry you had such a terribly rude experience at Butchart! I'm glad the rest of your experiences made up for it. Another beautifully stunning garden here is the Horticultural Centre of the Pacific (HPC) when you are next here!

Andrea

8/16/2016 11:24:52 am

I am so sorry for how you were treated. People just don't understand. I think you both look fabulous and I love the way you dress. I also try to dress period when I can. People always look at me in amazement and ALWAYS say they wish they had something like that. The way younger people dress these days is horrible. And there is no respect either. It just sickens me to hear what you went through but I'm glad you had a happy ending.

Michael

8/16/2016 12:11:36 pm

I am sorry to hear of the treatment you received from the Butchart staff. Unfortunately the attitude is not very amazing. It is a very beautiful garden but many of the staff have started to drink the proverbial Koolaid and believe that they are special. What they did has no excuse they were rude and have tainted the rest of us that live in Victoria. I am glad you discovered our other beautiful gardens and enjoyed them. If you visit again you should go to Point Ellice House. It is a victorian home and garden museum located near to downtown. It sounds like your interest. Please visit again we are not all like those two twits.

Me. (ret.) Dan Stotland

8/16/2016 12:35:59 pm

Butchart Gardens is adopting the first line defense of corporations that come under public/social fire. That is to remain silent and wait until the commotion dies down and peters out. They seem to have decided that people that value the past are a small group that is not commercially vey important.
They will only move on to the next defense tactic if the reaction is protracted and vociferous. I suggest that the next moves could be. arranging to get the attention of some selected news media, in Canada and the U.S.A. (these outlets should be large with a national viewership. ). an interview should present your values and decisions for the way you live and reasons why. Then you can mention the hostility & opprobrium that some members of the public have directed to you both. Then highlight the Butchart Gardens incident as an egregious example of that behavior. I suggest that a third party approach these outlets so it does not look like you & your spouse are conducting a personal vendetta. The Provincial and Federal Human Rights commissions should receive notice of formal complaint. such an avenue of pursuit is really worthwhile as It seems to be the case that Canada has a greater involvement in human rights incidents than in the United States. Such formal complaints should garner meaningful results. One of the commentators, in this thread, suggested that guest editorials be sent to a careful selection of national print media. You may wish to do that personally or have one or more supporters do it. These public remonstrations will alert wider members of the public to your lifestyle choice, philosophy and your website with its fascinating content. Do make mention of your writings, and Victorian era fictional stories. They should be included, in order to gain a wider audience for your published work. (my fervent hope would be that the cycling story series eventually gain New York Times seller list recognition, or at least a write up in their book review subsection). ("aim high gain much")
Butchart Gardens next probable move will be to issue a lame rational, (often hair brained), and perhaps a vague statement that management is "concerned" & is looking into the incident, and their public policy. Then they will count on the public's short attention and that the affair will fade away. Additional negative consequences should then garner subsequent meaningful activity on their part. So ask me why I "indulge" in all this letter writing activity? Public attitude against minorities was only changed by persistent actions and public education. For one example please view the actions of B'nai Brith, (& the anti-defamation organization) against the notorious anti-Semite & eugenecist Henry Ford and the Ford motor corporation in the mid 1920's. Their national boycott brought Ford Motor to the edge of bankruptcy. Libel actions also helped. He was forced to cease publishing his Dearborn Independent newspaper. The repeated sit ins, boycotts, demonstrations of Dr. Martin Luther King junior and the civil rights movement, eventually effected change in the law. Such laws, & etc helped change majority
American behavior toward visible minorities.
The civil right organizations and B'nai Brith organizations, (as well as many other groups), had to mount continual actions to fight bias over a number of years). Unfortunately, you & many others are visible minorities and today face the same discrimination.
If they had gained knowledge of the substantial number of your supporters, You would have been treated with comity and respect. For example barring Sikhs with beards, Turbans, and their womens saris, churidar & kurta pantsuits. would have launched a firestorm of protest and political involvement. The same for other minorities' distinctive ethnic and religious garb. (Chasidic and also orthodox Jews, Hutterites, some Mennonites, Indians, Pakistanis, & Bangla Deshis robes and skull caps, Arab robes and aghals, etc. etc. ) These groups have numbers, activists, & political standing. Butchart Gardens would not dare do that.
I cannot fathom how a corporation, (for profit or not), would tacitly give their employees plenipotential authority to make ad hoc dress & sumptuary rulings on the spot. No public notice was made known of such policy in their published material nor posted on the premesis for visitors. The management is wholly responsible and liable for the activities of their employees. (jointly and civilly). Their lawyers will not be happy when they find out . Their attempted confiscation of your prepayment was criminal extortion. They committed many tortious acts, among other issues.
Hope this helps.
Happy anniversary, & many more to come.
Best regards,
Dan & Margaret.

Angela Gallant

8/16/2016 12:53:38 pm

I am flabberghasted and appalled at such rude behaviour from those gardens! I was given to believe that such a venue was the epitome of beauty and grace in my fair province! I will definitely NOT be attending to such a place should I come visiting the capitol of my province again. Thank you for letting me know of such a waste of time, space, finances and energy.

As to your attire, I am amazed and thrilled to hear of your choices and I can only hope to adorn myself as finely and thoroughly as you have chosen. It inspires me to higher standards of my own attire. Thank you for your efforts and energy! Completely worth it!

Shauna Crane

8/16/2016 03:10:01 pm

I posted my comments on their Facebook page and would encourage others to do so as well. https://www.facebook.com/pages/Butchart-Gardens-Vancouver-Island/503040299708535?fref=ts

Brent Caughy

8/16/2016 03:27:01 pm

Please accept a Canadian apology for the behavior of Butchart Gardens. In Canada (and I'm sure the US as well) this would be a clear case of discrimination. I am shocked in the atmosphere currently in Canada of exaggerated political correctness that this would even be considered. I have written a classic 'strongly worded letter' to Butchart and hope they can find a way to make amends to you both. Wow, living in beautiful Victorian Port Townsend as Victorians! I envy you. To be treated this way in BC's most Victorian city is shameful and I said as much to the Gardens.

Sam

8/16/2016 03:29:10 pm

I am so sorry to hear about your interactions with staff at the BG. I used to work there, and though I no longer do, I feel embarrassed. All staff are trained to treat each visitor with respect and we have behavioural mannerisms and dress codes to follow to work there (say "Thank you" instead of "Thanks" or "No problem"; only natural coloured hair allowed; men must be clean shaven or have grown out facial hair - no growing it out while working there; etc.). The main point of that being to treat visitors like they are family. I don't understand why you were singled out like this and I am very sorry. There are Amish people, monks, nuns, etc. who come in dressed in their lifestyle dress or robes. These are not considered 'costumes' so it is ridiculous to hear that you were denied access and asked to change due to your lifestyle choice of clothing. If there was confusion, once you stated that it was how you normally dress, they should have apologized and there shouldn't have been an issue. On the website, I don't believe there is a dress code for visitors. The only 'dress code' for visitors in place, where we ask them to change that I know of, is if someone comes in in a wedding dress, or bridesmaids in dresses, to take wedding pictures unless it is booked (from Jan to April I believe). The reason for this is because the management doesn't want people overstepping the paths for pictures (damaging the grass or flowers) or blocking paths so other visitors cannot get past as the paths are fairly small. You were there to enjoy the gardens, not to wander 'in costume'. It is sad because I doubt anyone would have asked you to change had you not gone into visitor information and it truly is a beautiful place. Before I left, I noticed that it was becoming less of a "lets be there for the visitors" to more of a business that simply wants to make money and was less trusting of visitors we see. It's truly a shame since it is a gorgeous garden, but unique visitors, or potential visitors who don't have the money, miss out. From a former BG staff, I am so sorry, this should not have happened. The only way things will change is if you complain to management. I'm glad you got to enjoy the rest of the city as it is also gorgeous.

Corey Sunray

8/16/2016 04:03:59 pm

I am so very sorry for the way you both were treated by customer service representatives. Especially in a place like Burchard Gardens during tourist season. NOT their finest hour. You are so right that a friendly greeting seemed to have been greatly lacking. I think we have come to a sad point in time where social graces seem to have gone by the wayside. My husband shocks people all the time because he asks "how are you doing today? "
I swear if we are told one more time to "have a good one!" We might snap. What happened to
"thank you for coming and have a nice day!"
I live about 20 minutes from Butchard's and we don't go because of the price. I am glad they refunded you in full, even if you had to hound them for it. I found it very upsetting to read that they finally offered to call a higher up to ask if they could make an exception, when that is the first thing they should have offered to do!
You should have been greeted with a smile and they should have let you in seeing as this is your everyday dress.. . (It's not like your every day dress is ladybug/ bumblebee costumes)
Their guests certainly would have enjoyed your presence.
I'm horribly disappointed that they are representing one of Victoria's main attractions but glad you saw so many other beautiful places!
Also glad that you encountered so many friendly people of Victoria to help erase your sad dealings with the people of Butchard Gardens. ❤

Sam Brownlee

8/16/2016 06:20:46 pm

Next year, forget Victoria - come to Port Alberni for our Jane Austin Festival - costumes encouraged! Some details on this years events can be found at http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/jane-austen-festival-port-alberni-1.3613792

Noah

8/16/2016 06:42:16 pm

What if you'd shown up in Haredi garb? That's also traditional clothing. If your hats had been black and they demanded you remove them, they'd be facing a human rights tribunal for discrimination on the basis of religion.

steven mckinley

8/16/2016 06:51:20 pm

i am so sorry you were treated that way at butchart gardens. horrible.
i suggest to everyone that they leave a comment on trip advisor. tourist attractions live and die on trip advisor.

Kevin Steil link

8/16/2016 06:59:34 pm

BG just posted an open reply on their website, around 6pm on 8/16/16.

http://www.butchartgardens.com/media/news-releases/butchart-gardens-response-inquiries-regarding-chrismans?fullsite=true

Sarah

8/16/2016 08:01:06 pm

I'm disappointed that instead of addressing what really happened, they chose to deny the truth of the situation.

Sarah

8/16/2016 08:02:36 pm

I suppose that for liability reasons their lawyers told them they had no choice.

Kelby Winters

8/16/2016 07:47:36 pm

I'm embarrassed to be from Victoria. I hope you come back to our city one day. I think your clothes are amazing. Victorian clothes are prohibited but modern clothes can be halfway down your butt, or too low or too tight or dirty and that's ok. Shame shame shame on you Butcharts Gardens.

Wendy

8/16/2016 07:48:14 pm

I am so sorry to read this, Victoria is my home town and my family has been there, well since the Victorian era. I could have invited you over for tea and shown you some. Family antiques. I. Hope you still enjoyed your time and come back. We are not all snobs!

Victoria Howard

8/16/2016 08:31:00 pm

They don't want you in your Victorian Garb because ppl may think you work there, yet tell you to put on OLD employee uniforms??!! Where's the sense in that??!!! How absurd! What codswallop!

Me. Dan Stotland

8/16/2016 09:04:09 pm

How do the management explain their receipt of your pre-payment for entry to Burchart Gardens premises and other costs. and a subsequent refund of your monies. Their post (which I have not read yet), may be libelous. Have multiple letters been sent to selected North American Historical societies? Also re-enactment groups? I strongly suspect that these organizations would be most interested in learning of this notorious incident and pertinent details of their disgusting behavior. I predicted, in my last post here, that their response would most likely be an excuse that would strain credulity. Namely a general denial. They are right on time with that idiocy. Keep up the heat, and wait for their probable step three response. (something along the lines of "We are looking into the matter, we're reviewing our policies"). You wont have to wait long.
I can smell their stench all the way to here in St. Louis.
Best regards,
Dan & Margaret.

Maximus Meridius

8/16/2016 10:49:10 pm

As a BC'er, I would like to apologize for the treatment you suffered at the hands of Butchart Gardens staff and their antiqued policies.

It is individuals like yourselves that make this world so interesting -and thank you for that. Can you imagine how boring this world would be if we were all exactly the same?

I believe the next time I go to Butchart Gardens I will smuggle a mask in, get my picture taken with it on, and post it on numerous social media sites. I am ALWAYS up for a good challenge when it breaks stupid rules.

Anyway, you two both look fantastic. I wish you all the best in the future with hopefully much fewer road blocks in your paths.

Grace

8/16/2016 11:34:15 pm

I love Victoria and One of the only places I have never been to is the Butchart gardens. I was planning to go there but after reading about the way you were treated I have no desire to go there. Like you said, there are lots of other beautiful gardens in Victoria. Wishing you the best and happy anniversary.

Roger

8/17/2016 07:28:19 am

I wrote an article on MSNBC's Newsvine blog, citing the King 5 story for the basics. I have loved my encounters with you in Port Townsend over the years. I knew you would turn this experience into a positive affirmation of the way you choose to celebrate life. Best wishes and Happy Anniversary! http://goldpointe.newsvine.com/_news/2016/08/17/35963821-victorias-butchart-gardens-kicks-out-couple-wearing-victorian-era-style

Marylou

8/17/2016 07:46:01 am

I am from Victoria and I am truly appalled to hear about how you were treated. As you mentioned in your blog, where is the line drawn? I have visited on occasions and witnessed attire that was less than appropriate for the gardens, suggestive and highly distracting. Your case is truly discriminatory and I will no longer be recommending any visitors to this outrageously overpriced attraction. I am glad you were able to turn a bad situation around and enjoy the many other wonderful sights our city had to offer.

Gaëna da Sylva link

8/17/2016 09:03:36 am

I want to say as other people here... I don't want to be associated with such behaviour in our beautiful country. It is totally disrespectful and the opposite of the precious freedom we carry in our societies of North America. Your way of being is marvelous and how you are evolving into life is a pure delight, an inspiration as to embrace our apsirations and why not little sparkles of excentricity. Take care... Gaëna

April M.

8/17/2016 10:22:19 am

Sorry to read about this situation. I work at Chihuly Garden and Glass at Seattle Center. While we know it’s not the experience you initially had in mind, if you have any interest in visiting us, and our garden, we’d be happy to offer admission and lunch or dinner in our restaurant.

Jillian Stewart

8/17/2016 11:48:39 am

Well that is absolutely appalling of Buchart Gardens! Their rates are way higher than necessary and are now an over-rated tourism spot in Victoria and the surrounding area! But the fact that they treated you so poorly, disrespected you, and remained defensive, there's no excuses for that!

I am happy to hear that the rest of your trip here was enjoyable and welcoming, that is the Victoria I've lived in for the past 3 years now! If I cross your path if you come back, you'll have a warm welcome from me and other suggestions of sites and places to see in town! And I'd be happy to get in a photo with you as well! Sometimes I dress extravagant myself and having the courage to do so in spite of judgments is a great thing to see!

All the best to you both and hope you return in future!

Christina

8/17/2016 12:12:59 pm

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Chrisman,
I am so sorry to read about your experience at BG but am so happy to read about your resulting experiences thereafter. I'm appalled that my fellow Canadians would treat you this way. I can understand upholding a policy but their rudeness and disrespect was completely unacceptable. I commend you for standing up for yourselves. All the best, Christina.

Manuela Tiefenbach link

8/17/2016 12:30:18 pm

I sent an email on your behalf. I am from Vancouver and love Mid-century hair and fashion. Here is my email to them:

Good afternoon,

I just wanted to say how disappointed I am after reading several articles regarding that lovely couple that came up for their anniversary to celebrate. A couple who live a Victorian life and to be sent away because of a ridiculous rule.

It does a disservice to your patrons to think they are incapable of enjoying the gardens as well as someone's well thought out attire. An Attire that would actually enhance the experience.

I wear vintage 1940's to 1950's every day. You would turn me and my friends away?

Our local Vintage hair group met at the Heritage Village here in Vancouver and we had such a great reception from the venue as well as the other patrons.

However that said I suggest you take this negative event and turn it into something positive If you do not want to change the rule about being Historical dress and how about a dress up week or weekend like Disney's Dapper Day that is twice a year and both parks. This was everyone can enjoy a lovely day of gardens, tea and pretty clothes.

Sincerely,

Manuela Tiefenbach

Pat Dahl

8/17/2016 12:33:09 pm

Wow! Thank you for sharing your story. I am sorry you were treated so poorly and will personally never visit Butchart Gardens again. Thank you for the info on Abhkazi Gardens - we will be sure to check it out on our next trip. God Bless you both! <3

Karen O.

8/17/2016 12:51:24 pm

I find it odd that they thought you were so well-dressed that people would think you work there, so as an alternative, they wanted you to change into old uniforms, which would *certainly* make people think you work there!
My husband and I treated ourselves to an Alaska cruise for our 20th Anniversary which included a stop in Victoria. We visited several of the fabulous places you went to--but not Butchart Gardens; it was too expensive and too far outside of town.
I went again with some girlfriends to celebrate an upcoming wedding (a high-class Bachelorette party, I guess) and I'm glad we didn't go to the gardens since we were dressed too formally for their taste--not Victorian, but more modern-day Ascot...elegant dresses with hats; to the nines! I hope that enough people write to the gardens and change their policy. Asking people to dress down to visit a beautiful garden seems very backwards, and Canadians are usually known for being lovely people.
I'm very glad that your anniversary turned into a much more pleasant trip with a lot more excursions. Blessings for many more happy years together!

Michael Walker

8/17/2016 12:54:22 pm

August 17th 2016

Dear Mr. and Mrs. Chrisman,

Having recently discovered your blog, I would like to say how refreshing it is to hear that there are others out there who also embrace the culture of our past. While I more so cherry pick from many different eras as opposed to focusing on just one, I genuinely appreciate the purest approach you have taken.
Anyways, I would like to thank you for sharing your experiences with the world. It has been wonderful to read about your Victorian experiences on your blog, especially this story. I am happy that you were able to see Abkhazi Garden. It only goes to show that when one door closes, another will open. Lastly, thank you for sharing your insights on Abkhazi Garden . It is a beautiful place that I had never heard of.

Sincerely,
Michael Walker
Saint Louis, Missouri

Lacy Hennessey

8/17/2016 04:44:44 pm

My husband and I frequently dressed in genuine Victorian clothes and were welcomed everywhere while wearing them in the Seattle area. We wore them on our honeymoon in Victoria, and to the Port Townsend tour of homes and Rhody Festival every year, in the Seventies and Eighties. Odd that the Canucks have gotten so snarky.

Eric Lehner link

8/17/2016 05:03:41 pm

Thank you for your visit to Canada. I apologize on behalf of our supposedly tolerant country for such strange behaviour as your poor reception at the gardens. Please believe me when I say that we are not all as stupid as the management that asked you to leave. Thank goodness you had the grace to recover from the experience and carry on. Cheers!

Lisa

8/17/2016 09:19:34 pm

I am so sorry you were treated so poorly in our province. I struggle to grasp why on EARTH your clothing would be "distracting" to other patrons. I would think most people would notice, smile, and carry on with their tour. Lots of different kinds of clothing can be "distracting", including revealing clothing, brightly coloured clothes, dirty or torn clothes, etc. I can understand not allowing masks. But I want to know the real reasons why they turn people away in certain clothing. Are they trying to prevent secret weddings from taking place on the grounds? From impersonating staff What is it?! Either way there are solutions for that, visitors should wear lanyards or something. And if BG objects to someone's garb, they could pin a "I DO NOT WORK THERE" sign to their back or something. Ugh, I am so disgusted by their behaviour and preposterous policy.

Eric Lehner

8/18/2016 09:08:41 am

This is the e-mail that I sent to Butchart Gardens today (with my full name and address in the original):

Note to the Management of Butchart Gardens –

As a Canadian I am ashamed of the fact that you would expel the Washington State couple recently who were dressed in period clothing. Would you have ejected a couple in Islamic clothing including hijab or Burka? Would you have ejected a couple in other religious garb? Mennonite family which dresses modestly in a style that is reminiscent? Would you have ejected persons with tattoos? Blue jeans with “fashionable” distressed cuts and tears?

There is a conceptual opportunity in this situation that you are missing.

Rather than discriminating against and repelling fine people whose interest in history extends to the wearing of Victorian clothing, why don’t you recognize that these are the sort of people whose gentleness and decorum add a certain panache to the visitor community and experience.

In a world with so much vulgarity, grunge and mayhem, the LEAST of your concerns should be to become fashion police to persons whose “period clothing” is unacceptable to you on a purely subjective basis, and if anything extreme only in the sense of being modest or formal.

Shame on you.

Louise

8/18/2016 10:49:59 am

So what now Butchard Gardens has a dress code? Well, then what about no shirt, no shoes, no see through clothing, no army fabric, no computers, no cell phones, etc? You know, all the modern gear.
I am appalled at the way this couple was treated. I should think the Gardens would be flattered.

Michelle

8/18/2016 02:23:42 pm

My husband and I were also in Victoria on holidays and we passed you both a number of times downtown one day. We were curious and it struck up a conversation with our local friends. Sorry to hear about the gardens ( we stayed away bc of the cost) but we think you both looked lovely.

Richard Berrow

8/18/2016 03:34:29 pm

Speaking as a resident of British Columbia and occasional visitor to the Butchart Gardens, who has referred many out of town visitors to the place, I won't be doing so again. This is certainly not how we normally deal with visitors in BC. I see that the Gardens has put a statement on its website saying that they only objected to the lady's hat, and would have let the couple in had she removed it. That's an unlikely story, I think, and, if true, bizarre. It's obvious from the internet that the Gardens have damaged their reputation far and wide by this episode.

Sarah Chrisman

8/18/2016 04:06:42 pm

Thank you for very much for your support. We were deeply hurt when we saw how falsely Butchart had presented the incident in their official response, and it only made the whole unpleasant affair even more painful than it already was. It is incredibly reassuring to hear that you believe in our honesty, and I truly thank you.

Toby

8/18/2016 04:31:51 pm

Whew. Before I had gotten even halfway through your story, I was so damned mad I had to stop reading. Still can't go back and finish.
The thing that gets me about this is that sure as I am alive, that empty-headed fool behind the counter that was so rude to you was probably dressed like a basement-dwelling college dropout. And I am sure those gardens were full up to the gills with people whose underwear was in plain view.

Mik Gray-Death

8/18/2016 07:52:37 pm

As a member of a group who's sole purpose is to go to garden fests, fates and events of the like, dressed in Victorian attire ( unfortunately we love to dress for events but don't have your amazing dedication) it is astounding to find somewhere like that who wouldn't open their arms to you. We have numerous events here that contact us as we attract so many wonderful remarks when we stroll through their gardens. We are lucky if we can get more than a dozen steps without be asked for photos. I love your dedication to your principals and hope noone ever stops you from doing and living the way you want.

Megan

8/18/2016 08:37:09 pm

I have sent an angry email to Butchart Gardens PR on your behalf telling them that they ruined your wedding anniversary and need to invite you back at their expense with open arms and kindness (pay for your hotel, gardens visit, and high tea). Their treatment of you was vile. You both looked very stylish and lovely and while you did end up finding a pretty garden, your wedding anniversary memories were ruined by their cruelty. They must revise their ridiculous "costume" policy and stop engaging in discrimination against their visitors. I love all things Victorian, however, I'm not a fan of Butchart Gardens. Kindest regards!

Keli Rugenstein

8/19/2016 04:26:42 am

What would they have done had you been Amish? This is a horrible story and I am re-sharing it just because I want them gardens to get the negative publicity they deserve.

Calvin

8/19/2016 08:16:27 am

Read about the abysmal way Butchart Gardens treated you. I applaud you for your commitment to the Victorian lifestyle you have chosen for yourselves. It is beyond comprehension how anyone could criticize you for this or fault find...but there you have it. Press on in your endeavor and well done.

Susan Teasdale

8/19/2016 10:31:12 am

In most places outside Victoria, BC, you would have been welcomed. Victoria is the Capital of the province. It is filled with righteous, narrow minded Bureaucrats, who carry rule-books around with them and judge everyone. I worked as a Kindergarten teacher for 20 years in BC. I dressed up all the time ( never anything skimpy or vulgar) to create a sense of joy and wonder in the classroom. The 2 men you met at the gardens were small minded bureaucrats, paid by the provincial government of BC. If you want to see the humour in your experience, think of one of the most famous Canadian artists in the 20th Century. Emily Carr, who was snubbed by family and citizens of Victoria, walked around with her black pram, monkey and dog, "Billy" up and down the city streets. In the middle of the Century she was asked to send her paintings to Ottawa; the Group of Seven welcomed her presence as an accomplished Canadian artist/painter. I am glad you put up a fuss. I feel that if you were in England or France, no-one would have stopped you. Take note: Victoria is pretty. However, many of it's workers are stuck in the 20th Century. Same as our provincial Government. You are right to feel "rejected" and misunderstood by the "Gardens" folk. Skimpy t-shirts and thongs are just as inappropriate. You are RIGHT! Write a letter to the Globe and Mail in Toronto, Ontario. They have a BC section. You are being blamed for your creativity. No-one has the right to ask you to change your clothes. Sue Teapot, Kindergarten Teacher

Maria

8/21/2016 10:55:36 am

Susan, just to inform you the Butchart Gardens are privately owned. Here is the history of the Gardens http://www.butchartgardens.com/gardens/story

This is the only public place in Victoria the Chrismans were not welcomed. I believe they would be welcomed everywhere else in Canada. It doesn't make sense to me why they were turned away from Butchart Gardens in the first place, nor do I accept Butchart Gardens defense excuse posted on their website to justify their action against the Chrismans as they align themselves with another famous attraction Disneyland with this dress code restriction. This incidence has resulted in a sour situation that has many people rethinking why they should support their multi million dollar business. In addition some people and media have unfortunately ridiculed this situation as being blown out of proportion, however what should they have done, bowed their head and remained silent!? Fortunately we have freedom of speech. As it so happens this is not only a lifestyle but a profession. Sarah Chrisman is a writer and has maintained this website and blog for some time. If this wasn't an important issue, no one would have paid attention.

Marlin Palmer

8/19/2016 11:11:04 am

As a Canadian I'm offended by the treatment you received from Butchart Gardens. Our society is based on equality, acceptance and tolerance. It would seem that Butchart a Gardens is an outlier of those values.

I'm pleased the remainder of your visit was in keeping with your expectations. Victoria is a lovely, romantic destination and I'm sure the tourism association, BBB as well as city council would be equally appalled at the treatment you received from Butchart Gardens.

I happened to notice you live in Port Townsend. We lived in Vancouver for many years and visited many times. Our home is adorned with numerous photographs of the lovingly cared for, stately Victorian mansions, of your city. For anyone who loves Victorian architecture Port Townsend provides the best examples of period homes in North America.

I hope the positives of your experience outweigh your negative experience. Please know the vast majority of Canadian citizens and businesses don't share the views of Butchart Gardens and welcome you with open arms.

Best Regards,

Marlin Palmer

Stuart Morrison link

8/19/2016 12:23:02 pm

As someone who is quite partial to both period and historical dress as well as dressing to stand out I can only say that these small minded petty bureaucrats have no joy in their life.

I would suggest that you keep wearing your fabulous outfits, and add a splash of colour and vibrant differentiation to the world.

Come to the UK whenever I am out and about in one of my loud suits I get smiles, photographs and nothing but positive feedback, in fact my business thrives because of the way I dress.

I'm loving the website and the information and will no doubt be back for I am a little bit jealous of the Penny-Farthing (big wheel) Cycle that you have. I will one day have one myself!

All the very best and I hope that your adventures continue.

Kerrie

8/19/2016 12:52:58 pm

I've sent the following to the address you provided. You are not alone in longing for the days of decent culture.

I've recently read an article giving the details of this establishments refusal of a paid couple based on their attire. I see this as nothing less than absurd! So much for culture! To ask a lady to take off her hat?! I'm from the US and we have more manners than to act in such a way. I'm seriously disappointed in the lack of human decency displayed by your staff in this instance. From what I've read, I doubt you care though. However, I will make sure that I spread this case as far and wide as I possibly can so that others won't be troubled to make a trip to your gardens, lest they be turned away.
Sincerely, Mrs K. Durheim

Maryanne

8/20/2016 05:59:00 am

The people at Butchart Gardens do not speak for the rest of us Canadians. Thank you for your efforts to enjoy Canada. I did not know that modest and beautiful dress was frowned upon. More power to you in your choices.

Helga

8/20/2016 06:57:13 pm

This is what I sent them:

To The Butchart Gardens Visitor Experience Team,

I am disappointed by the manner reception staff interacted with the visitors who planned to spend a whole day in The Butchart Gardens on their anniversary.

Overall, when faced with meeting both customer needs and wants with service quality standards, there should always be the obliging offer of an alternative or future service immediately. It is understandable that the customer cannot always be right. On the occasion that they are mistaken, allow them to be treated with dignity; --especially around the subject of creativity, identity, and hats.

The site holds a lot of history, as advertised on the website. The Dress Code Policy should be less discriminating to visitors wanting to experience the site in a unique way. In the press release note regarding the Chrismans, "Disney Parks" and "Sea World Parks," were mentioned as attractions that share The Butchart Gardens current view on costumes/historical dress worn onsite. However, these places are not leading examples of Canadian tourist attractions.

Here is one example of a prominent institution in Canada that does not limit visitor creativity/identity: All Parks Canada National Historic Sites, and National Parks are welcoming to visitors dressed in non-mainstream attire. This has never detracted the ultimate experience of other visitors. Their employees are clearly recognizable from the public.

I personally do not understand the fear of visitors being mistaken for paid staff. The misunderstanding can be cleared up in seconds and then everyone moves on to enjoy the flowers. I seriously doubt buskers will flock to the site and pay the expensive admission fee if the dress code policy was changed. What about special events and rentals? Can I have a themed party at Butchart Gardens?

The current view The Butchart Gardens has on this matter concerns me. I was hoping to host a lavish event next summer at top dollar. At this juncture I have decided to look elsewhere.

Regards,
H.

Carmen Moore

8/21/2016 04:40:49 pm

Your treatment at Butchart Gardens was appalling! We were there once as part of a cruise. We will not be going back again, believe me. Shame on Butchart Gardens for not hiring people with intelligence.

Mary

8/22/2016 07:42:12 am

I'm sorry this happened to you both, and am disgusted and shocked by the treatment you both received. I have sent a letter to Butchart Gardens PR office, (received no reply from them which only adds to how bad they look), and to the Times Colonist whose skewed editorial only added to the crazy illogical story. Times Colonist must get ad revenue from Butchart Gardens so shame on them.
Next time you're in town, please visit the grounds and gardens at Government House (back and front). It's all free, and a much more beautiful setting than the over manicured synthetic look of Butchart.

Comments are closed.

***

Victoria, B.C., Canada: Downs and ups on an anniversary trip —or, How we were denied entrance to Victoria's most famous garden for dressing too decently, yet still managed to find many lovely flowers in much better places

Archives

Author: Sarah A. Chrisman

Categories